Campervan cabinetry - ply & MDF novice Q's

[dilby]

Hi everyone, hope this is the right place to post this!

I've started a campervan conversion project, and am currently considering my options for the kitchen cabinets, upper cabinet and seating. Two main methods that seem to be used are MDF an ply but each have draw backs and i was hoping some more experienced folks than me can help give me some advice.

My first idea was to use laminated ply and keep the edges exposed deliberately like below. I plan to carry a lot of gear in my van and the last thing I want is damage to paint so this seems the most durable option. However there's a huge ply shortage here from what I know, especially for birch ply so there's a waiting game involved. I have a basic MFT table setup with a Makita track saw which should work well for this. My question for this option is birch vs poplar. Poplar seems to be a common choice on campers for it's weight, but I don't know much about it's structure and am aware some plys don't have nice laminate for exposed cross cuts. Would I notice a difference on the edging between these two products?

If I use MDF I need to paint the entire cabinets, and the longevity of the finish bothers me. From what I've read the most durable finish, and what a pro kitchen maker would do, is a proper spray job with a hardener. But i've not done this before - I don't even own a spray setup - so this seems a big leap to bank on. Am I missing another option here to make MDF painting ultra durable?

As a final note; weight is an issue for the options, but I'm debating how much of an issue. Fuel economy something to consider but just how much it's affected is so hard to calculate.

Thanks so much!

 

[Spectric]

Weight is a major factor, it should be at the top of your list because it will effect the whole project. What van are you converting and what was it's original load capacity as that will give you a starter. A heavy end result will effect the handling, braking and durability of the vehicle.

This is a different area of cabinetry where you need strength through design and not material so have you visited people who sell caravans and campers to see how they are built as it will give you some good ideas. Another option would be to visit a caravan dismantler to see if they have ready made items you could use. As for material I would be looking at 6mm laminated ply to keep the weight down, MDF is heavy.

 

[niall Y]

I recently carried out a conversion for a friend. I used poplar ply to keep the weight down. The thickness is also only 15mm, which also helps with weight reduction. Anything thinner and you are restricted in the ease of construction. With anything much thinner you wont be able get a firm fix with a screw.
Ply boards sold for camper vans usually come with a thin plastic laminated faces. So, finishing, apart from the edges is already done, The edges of poplar ply are very pale. You can either stain and varnish these to blend in, or use some of that plastic push-fit edging. I used a combination of both, though the plastic edging does give it a 'certain look.'

 

[Lons]

What Spectric said is valid and you definitely need to plan very carefully before making furniture and fittings.

You must look at the specifications of your vehicle first to determine the unladen and maximum gross weight limits. Unless you're planning a covert conversion and not declaring to the DVLA and insurance company, ( no comment on that from me ) then once the van is fully fitted it should be plated with front and rear axle weights and the unladen weight as it stands, it would also need to show an MTPLM (maximum technically permissible laden mass) which would normally be no more than 3.5t unless you have category C on your licence, the difference between the two weights is the amount of allowance you have for clothing, passengers and all the other stuff people chuck in for a trip away, you might be surprised how much that actually weighs.
To get the allowances you want you might have to upgrade springs, suspension and tyres. Adding air bags in place of the bump stops is a decent system and not too expensive.

So, apart from affecting handling if you overload and putting the lives of family and other road users at risk there is always the possibility of being pulled over by the boys in blue at a road check as they are increasingly active in that respect and if you aren't properly plated or are overloaded you get a fine and probably penalty points plus your insurance is likely not valid and the van will not be allowed to move.

My apology if you already know all this but I felt worth pointing out and for anyone else contemplating a conversion there's loads of stuff on .gov website regarding regulations and penalties for non compliance.

 

[Tris]

If you haven't already seen it Magnum Motorhomes website is well worth a look. Useful info on builds and a gallery of vans people have converted for ideas.

Having dismantled caravans before it's amazing how much strength is in 2 sheets of 3.5mm ply glued to a thin timber frame

 

[Spectric]

Having dismantled caravans before it's amazing how much strength is in 2 sheets of 3.5mm ply glued to a thin timber frame

That is strength through design, having seen projects where people blindly do something and then end up with something that has almost sat the vehicle on the bump stops ends up with an expensive re work. You could rebate a timber frame so as it hides the end of the ply, as if wrapping itself round.

Another aspect to think of is securing to the existing van metalwork and maybe insulation, I would avoid self tapers and use captive threaded fasteners such as rivnuts which come in steel or alloy.

 

[Richard_C]

Even seemingly similar models from the same manufacturer can have different weight ratings, that works through into all sorts including tyre specifications. Check carefully. In any case weight is the enemy.

Maybe weigh it before you start to get an idea of your scope. I've no idea how much it costs these days but trivial in the context of the whole job. Your local council website should have a list of certified public weighbridges, and gov.uk has a weighbridge finder. (the nearest one to me is a "pet crematorium" - at least that's its public face but it does diseased farm animals too so I guess they charge by weight).

Back in the 70s I had a second hand VW camper, proper conversion. The other enemy? Rattles creaks and clinks. 2 glasses in the far back of the van clinking over every bump drives you mad on a 500 mile trip.

 

[dilby]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Okay weight seems to be an issue being flagged here; weirdly most of the big converters for non-coach built are using either ply like the image shown or mdf - one weight saving option for things like doors is having a shaker style, but im back to my issue about the paint. Does anyone know of a very hardly solution for this or will it always be susceptible to marks without a proper compressor/spray gun setup?

In regards to vehicle weight from a gov perspective, it's only a medium wheel base and way off the 3.5t mark at this stage, so it's more fuel economy which is a concern. My father is an engineer for an airline and reckons it doesn't affect it too much as these are delivery vans designed to be stocked up, but i can't find any raw data.

 

[Jameshow]

I'm guessing if your design is a full fat motorhome or a light weight rock and roll bed side conversion.

Former you want to go light weight possibly using a caravan interior the latter a 12mm sheet if ply is only going to add 10kg over a 6mm sheet. So isn't such an issue.

Mine used 4 sheets of ply 12mm which weight approx 80kg add some cleats so less than 100kg and I can remove it in 10mins for a handy van.

 

[Spectric]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Okay weight seems to be an issue being flagged here;

Should have also mentioned the word distribution, weight up high will have a much larger impact on handling and you also don't want to add all the extra weight to one side.

 

[dilby]

Should have also mentioned the word distribution, weight up high will have a much larger impact on handling and you also don't want to add all the extra weight to one side.

Thanks yes the weight distribution is already sorted, I've taken that into consideration when planning the layout

 

[dilby]

I'm guessing if your design is a full fat motorhome or a light weight rock and roll bed side conversion.

Former you want to go light weight possibly using a caravan interior the latter a 12mm sheet if ply is only going to add 10kg over a 6mm sheet. So isn't such an issue.

Mine used 4 sheets of ply 12mm which weight approx 80kg add some cleats so less than 100kg and I can remove it in 10mins for a handy van.

Thanks - how did you paint it and how did the finish hold up?

 

[RobTy]

Weight depends a lot on the base van's spec. Assuming it's a VW.... T32, you will be fine unless you go nuts, T30, be a bit careful, T28, think VERY hard.

I did mine with bamboo ply carcasses which I laminated with melamine on the doors, car lacquering the exposed wood. 5y on, it's proven very durable. Only thing I'd change would be to laminate the cabinet doors on both sides to increase stability & reduce any warping (I have a few that are a little bent now...).

I used, 12mm ply for the carcasses, 6mm for the drawers and doors. 12mm was plenty with bamboo ply, there is no need for 15/18mm despite what people say, just be sensible with where you fix it to (3-4 points in the metalwork with proper Rivnuts and floating holes was my approach).

There are some photos on another thread if you have a search.

 

[dilby]

Weight depends a lot on the base van's spec. Assuming it's a VW.... T32, you will be fine unless you go nuts, T30, be a bit careful, T28, think VERY hard.

I did mine with bamboo ply carcasses which I laminated with melamine on the doors, car lacquering the exposed wood. 5y on, it's proven very durable. Only thing I'd change would be to laminate the cabinet doors on both sides to increase stability & reduce any warping (I have a few that are a little bent now...).

I used, 12mm ply for the carcasses, 6mm for the drawers and doors. 12mm was plenty with bamboo ply, there is no need for 15/18mm despite what people say, just be sensible with where you fix it to (3-4 points in the metalwork with proper Rivnuts and floating holes was my approach).

There are some photos on another thread if you have a search.

Thanks- it's not a transporter, it's a citroren relay (L2H2). Don't really know what I'm searching for, but how did you paint?

 

[Spectric]

Thanks- it's not a transporter

Someone who wants to be different, I thought people only thought about VW transporters as being campers so good on you for wanting something different.

 

[Jameshow]

Thanks - how did you paint it and how did the finish hold up?

One coat of polyurethane varnish promised I'd give it another coat!

It's held up well. I've had all sorts in it all terrain tyres plywood, fence posts etc etc.

If using paint look at either epoxy or two pack polyurethane from car spraying supplies.

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/transit-mk8-conversion.240947/
This site is worth a visit. (This is my van)

£20 to join but worth it if converting.

 

[powertools]

The weight limit is not optional. Your van will have a plate on it that gives max payload and max payload for each axle.

 

[Ollie78]

There is a company that sells lightweight plywood and other composites especially for vans etc. Been looking into it a bit as I might get roped into doing a conversion.
https://shop.morlanduk.com/ or these guys Lightweight Panels for DIY Campervans – Panel Systems

They also do fittings and stuff.
The load ratings on large vans are surprisingly small. The smallest Sprinter has the highest load capacity its quite easy to overshoot, remember you need enough left for people and baggage etc.

PS. Wisa do a Poplar core plywood with a Birch outer veneer.


Ollie

 

[Richard_C]

My father is an engineer for an airline and reckons it doesn't affect it too much as these are delivery vans designed to be stocked up, but i can't find any raw data.

Delivery vans vary - some have a pretty limited payload capacity, built light for economical urban deliveries of big-but-light stuff. You can fill them to the roof with cornflakes, not with gravel. You should find the maximum permitted mass on your V5, some call them registration books, and if not then a plate often on a door pillar. You might also find the mass in service - as it left the factory plus a notional 75Kg (I think) for a driver and maybe a half tank of fuel. Nothing else though, even a spare wheel isn't included. Relay might be OK, I think they are > 1,000 Kg payload but you should check.

0-9% overload is a £100 fixed penalty, plus they won't let you drive away until you have put things right.

If the starting point is a panel van (not a window van) you will forever be on van speed limits even if you put windows in. 70 on motorways but in most other places its 50 or 60 including dualled A roads.

Paint - it strikes me there are 2 approaches. Go with something fancy expecting it to last, like a good PU or 2 pack, or accept that you will get damage and go with something easy to fix and repaint, maybe Bedec MSP.

 

[RobTy]

If the starting point is a panel van (not a window van) you will forever be on van speed limits even if you put windows in. 70 on motorways but in most other places its 50 or 60 including dualled A roads.

That's actually not true anymore since the definition of camper was made more subjective a few years back. You cant reclassify your van now, so instead its left open to interpretation (& argument) on whether a converted van is a camper (hence subject to car limits) or a van.

Read this.

The key line is this "The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.
It is important to remember that even if the vehicle’s body type is not changed to ‘motor caravan’, the vehicle can still be used for this purpose as long as the keeper is satisfied the converted vehicle meets the required internal features for motor caravans"