Buying from EU

[Fergie 307]

All good points, and very good arguments for staying in / re-joining and having influence over reform and future developments.
The "political union" idea is a bit of a red herring until somebody fills out the details with an actual proposal of what they mean, bearing in mind that the EU is already an alliance which is a form of union to start with.

Kind of my point, it's never going to happen, so why even leave it on the table as fuel for their opponents.
And they need to get a grip of their own waste of money. The regular shuffle between Brussels and Strasbourg is a good example. A completely pointless waste of over €100,000,0000 annually. If they showed willing to address this sort of nonsense the critics would have much less to shout about. More to the point of they had addressed these issues years ago we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[selectortone]

The UK will not achieve better deals with the EU countries in time. We are the minor player, now vs just about the largest trading bloc in the world

The saying "Better to be inside the tent p*ssing out, than outside the tent p*ssing in" comes to mind.

 

[sploo]

The saying "Better to be inside the tent p*ssing out, than outside the tent p*ssing in" comes to mind.

Exactly.

 

[sploo]

Kind of my point, it's never going to happen, so why even leave it on the table as fuel for their opponents.
And they need to get a grip of their own waste of money. The regular shuffle between Brussels and Strasbourg is a good example. A completely pointless waste of over €100,000,0000 annually. If they showed willing to address this sort of nonsense the critics would have much less to shout about. More to the point of they had addressed these issues years ago we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

Yes... though that would only satisfy the "thinking" critics; i.e. those who actually look at the details and make valid and justified observations on the issues.

Most of the pro-Brexit arguments were based on nonsense claims about bendy bananas, unelected bureaucrats, "soverentee", and 1930s style posters of streams of brown people.

 

[Jacob]

Kind of my point, it's never going to happen, so why even leave it on the table as fuel for their opponents.
And they need to get a grip of their own waste of money. The regular shuffle between Brussels and Strasbourg is a good example. A completely pointless waste of over €100,000,0000 annually. If they showed willing to address this sort of nonsense the critics would have much less to shout about. More to the point of they had addressed these issues years ago we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

Brussels/Strasbourg was not carved in stone and could be renegotiated at any time.
We should have been "willing to address this sort of nonsense" (if that is what it is) and stayed in, argued the point, instead of brainlessly flouncing out!
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news...rliament-move-between-brussels-and-strasbourg

 

[Terry - Somerset]

We have left the EU. Completely foolish in my view but it happened. The key is what happens now, not playing blame games.

The probability of re-joining any time on terms similar to those we left in the next decade is close to zero. The UK in supplicant mode would have limited negotiating power. However attractive re-joining on lesser terms might be, it would likely be political suicide.

Humanity is classified by "tribe", initially represented by small groups with limited territory. As populations and trade increased, "tribes" became more regional. Many European nations trace their transition from regional to national status in the 18th and 19th centuries.

National "tribes" are now so linked on a global scale the "nation" is becoming irrelevant. Transition to a limited number of global "blocs" has started - probably China, North America, Europe. Will evolve to include Australasia (?), Russia (it may be too corrupt to join), Africa. (long way to go).

The limited number of developed economies not belonging to a "bloc" risk becoming a global irrelevancy losing influence and distant from major negotiations and decision making.

Long term the UK should seek to re-join the EU. Timing probably relies upon the clowns who engineered Brexit becoming largely political history (10-20 years). Until then the UK should seek to align as much of its legislation and policies to the EU so that re-joining creates little stress.

 

[niemeyjt]

I get the impression there is a lot of scorched earth taking place - like in trade deals. No going back!

 

[Billy_wizz]

So to summarise: more paperwork for individuals and businesses. UK sellers must simply put up with it if they wish to keep access to the EU market. EU sellers can however accept the loss of the UK market (as they can still easily sell to the rest of the EU, and the additional paperwork doesn't make it worthwhile to sell to the UK). Not exactly a win for the UK is it.

It allows for a company to make or import wholesale and sell/resell in the UK but will take time!

 

[sploo]

It allows for a company to make or import wholesale and sell/resell in the UK but will take time!

Time, and money (for the companies). Time and money that wasn't previously required to be spent.

 

[RogerS]

Seems to be possible
https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/customerforums/ie/7b7872b1-61d2-ed11-9ac4-00155d9c773cBut I suspect that the administrative grief against a small profit margin, plus delivery and warranty issues places it in the 'too much trouble' department.

Yup...Brexit. The Gift that keeps on giving. The one thing that Jacob and I agree on. We're both still waiting for the benefits. Any ? Please? One will do.

 

[RogerS]

Its not difficult to send most goods either way if you use one of the major carriers, DHL, UPS etc, they have pre-loaded forms that are very easy to fill in and guide you through the process. However I can understand if the companies margin is very small its not worth their time to even do this but do sell sporting goods to the EU using this method -- or the Post office for small items. As for leaving the EU I am in favour 100% we never should have signed the Maastricht treaty. The problem with the EU the tail is wagging the dog !

Give me one benefit, please.

 

[RogerS]

Not sure about Major and Merkel. In the shorter term; Farage and Cameron certainly (the former for scaring the Tories sufficiently for them to try to become UKIP, and the latter for promising a referendum purely to persuade hardline Eurosceptic voters to cast their ballot for the Conservatives instead of UKIP).

Longer term; certainly there's been a failure in the UK to explain to the population the benefits of membership (and an acceptance of years of untruths about "EU bureaucrats" being printed in the usual rags - which perhaps had more effect than expected).

Even longer term... maybe a failure to have a sufficiently educated public; such that they could spot an incompetent lying moron, even if that incompetent lying moron has an upper class accent.

What benefits?

 

[RogerS]

But what about the reports suggesting the Eu is in crises, & on a break-up course? Maybe it's the paparazzi ******* scare mongering as they are with ongoing conflicts.
Oh dear, we're off-topic AGAIN.

EU crises....Sadly I think not. There are too many fracture points in the world at the moment....not good. Not good at all.

 

[RogerS]

Yes, Cameron got a great deal and Sunak had a great deal with the Windsor BS. If the deals were so good why did neither of them tell us what the deals were? If I had a brilliant sports car I’d be flashing it all round town just like Cameron did with his great deal,NOT! Who wants to be governed by unelected, unnaccountable incompetents in Brussels?

Struggling to understand your point. If there ever was one.

 

[RogerS]

I must have missed the election where we voted for Von der Leyen.

Too busy playing Pokemon ?

 

[RogerS]

The UK was a major contributor to the EU. Without that contribution and, with the increasing number of poorer countries having joined or attempting to join, the EU will face harder times. The UK will achieve better deals with the EU countries in time. Covid has caused a significant delay in world affairs.

Ooh...what's that flying up there? Is it a plane? Is it a rocket ? Ooops....oink...oink...oink.

 

[RogerS]

And May & Johnson & Truss & Sunak

Or Gordon Brown....who spectacularly announced to the world that he was going to bail out the economy by selling our gold reserves thus ensuring the market dived. They are all (for the most part) as bad as each other.

 

[RogerS]

It allows for a company to make or import wholesale and sell/resell in the UK but will take time!

Unless they go bust first due to all the extra paperwork !

 

[sploo]

What benefits?

Easy trade between member nations. Easy flow of goods and people. Alignment of standards (facilitating easy trade). Collective bargaining power in trade negotiations. Just as a starter.

I'd also argue; though I accept it's more contentious - that some level of shared rule-making provides a degree of protection against undue influence in any one country. Murdoch has had huge power over UK politicians for decades, and I don't doubt there will be other individuals and organisations that exert similar influence in other countries. However, that influence does not necessary extend across multiple countries; so it's a lot harder for one set of moneyed scumbags to influence/blackmail MEPs from multiple countries. I'm not naïve enough to think there is no corruption in MEP's decisions; they're human, therefore there will be some dodgy behaviour - just that the influence of local power players might be mitigated by that multinational shared decision making.

 

[niall Y]

When buying from an EU country it all depends on whether the firm you are dealing with has got its act together. I purchased some tonewood from a German firm a week ago. I paid using Paypal and received the goods four days later. No problems, and the same service I got when I ordered from them. pre Brexit. Carriage, at £18.. was, however, not much less than the price of the goods.