Buying a machine on eBay sight unseen with pallet delivery

[deema]

@shed9 Distance selling laws don’t apply to auctions / eBay apart from ‘buy it now’ transactions. Equally it’s an auction not a contract so that regulation also doesn’t apply IMO. Auctions are covered differently.

 

[shed9]

@shed9 Distance selling laws don’t apply to auctions / eBay apart from ‘buy it now’ transactions.

I stand corrected. I knew the distance selling regs didn't cover competitive bids, but understood the application of Consumer Contract Law would. I'll another read later but good to know if the case.

 

[guineafowl21]

Most of my machines are cast iron, green and heavy, and were bought unseen. As far as I’m concerned, I don’t bid on something unless I’m prepared for it to arrive on my doorstep. Questions are asked before the auction ends, and if I’m not happy with the details, or the response, I keep scrolling.

I’ve also sold quite a few, and have had buyers win the auction, then disappear. It’s irritating. Many of them started asking for more pics after winning the item. As a seller, it rings alarm bells when the buyer wins the auction, then starts to decide whether they want it or not, having prevented the other bidders from buying it.

Not really a criticism of the OP, just my view from the other side of the argument.

 

[Rich C]

I stand corrected. I knew the distance selling regs didn't cover competitive bids, but understood the application of Consumer Contract Law would. I'll another read later but good to know if the case.

A lot also depends on whether it is a consumer contract, which depends on whether either party is selling in the course of their business or not. It's only a consumer contract if the seller is operating as a business and the buyer is not.

 

[Fergie 307]

Most of my machines are cast iron, green and heavy, and were bought unseen. As far as I’m concerned, I don’t bid on something unless I’m prepared for it to arrive on my doorstep. Questions are asked before the auction ends, and if I’m not happy with the details, or the response, I keep scrolling.

I’ve also sold quite a few, and have had buyers win the auction, then disappear. It’s irritating. Many of them started asking for more pics after winning the item. As a seller, it rings alarm bells when the buyer wins the auction, then starts to decide whether they want it or not, having prevented the other bidders from buying it.

Not really a criticism of the OP, just my view from the other side of the argument.

Exactly my point. There are far too many people who seem to consider that a winning bid is simply the first step in a negotiation with the seller. Before you bid you should be sure you want the thing, and are prepared to go through with th transaction if you win. if you are not sure then don't bid. All legal arguments aside to do otherwise is just a really poor way to behave.

 

[Fergie 307]

My comment was responding to someone who was being very specific about eBay rules and what you are signing up to. In that scenario, following the rules to the letter, you cannot have a conversation with the seller. Of course you can get around the rules.

I like to collect watches as well. Not bought any for a long time.

The reason e bay are not keen is because they are concerned about people negotiating their own deals and thereby avoiding the e bay fees. I don't do that, because I simply feel it is bad practice. If you are going to buy or sell stuff using their platform then you should pay the fees. With the pocket watches I collect, as with many other things, you often have a situation where the seller has got something found in a deceased relatives drawer or garage and know very little about it. A conversation with the seller can often be very useful in determining exactly what they have got, and so how much you want to bid for it.

 

[MikeJhn]

If you pay by PayPal and there is a problem, for instance the item does not turn up, e-bay will wash there hands of the problem and refer you to PayPal, I had this recently when the seller even got hold of a UK Post office signed receipt, not signed by me and not from the sellers registered address, but from an agent address in London, PayPal sided with the seller, it took a lot of correspondence asking for the Customs forms before PayPal would even consider the claim, they still would not refund the monies, my next action was with the Ombudsman who wrote to PayPal and suddenly PayPal begrudgingly paid me back with a "On this occasion" comment, meanwhile I contacted Nationwide Visa who's card I use to pay my PayPal account, there was no argument they just refunded the monies, so I was actually paid back twice, I contacted Nationwide Visa and offered to re-pay, they told me to put it into my savings account, the amount was £590.00, this is a real life experience not hearsay.

 

[Fergie 307]

This is utter nonsense. I don’t know why people on here are saying this stuff. It’s 100% normal to pull out of a sale. Refund the sellers fees if that makes things easier, but there is 0 obligation - it’s eBay, not a court of law. And if an item costs £1000 then even more so. Seller must understand they can’t sell something for £1k without people wanting to see it before paying and without the possibility that delivery/palleting etc falls apart.
Sellers routinely pull out of an auction cos they got a great offer. Buyers routinely make offers. Sales fall apart after the auction. Ignore anyone who says otherwise - they don’t know what they’re talking about. It’s even an option on the eBay drop-down list of ‘problems with the sale’. If eBay offers it as an option it’s most certainly not against their ‘terms of service’ or the ‘rules’ or any other legal-sounding phrase that people are using to scare you.
Personally I’d only buy something that expensive if I could go and look at it. But if you’ve won the auction the balls in your court. You can pull out at anytime if you’re not happy. It’s the sellers job to ensure this all goes through by helping and communicating. If they don’t they’ll lose the sale. Simples.

That is wrong. If you place a winning bid on e bay you are entering into a legally binding contract to buy the goods. If you refuse to pay for the goods without a valid reason, and that is broadly limited to the item not being as described, or not fit for purpose, then you have broken that contract. If the seller was prepared to go to the trouble of taking you to court over it they would undoubtedly win. No body does of course because it would be too much hassle, so you just block that buyer from bidding on your stuff in future and contact the next highest bidder or relist it. Likewise whilst the seller can decide not to sell the item and withdraw it at any time before the auction ends, if they let the auction run to a winning bid and then refuse to let you have it because it didn't fetch as much as they wanted, they too would be in breach of contract. Regardless of the law, or the likelihood of anyone ever taking any kind of legal action in these circumstances, this is just a very poor way to behave, and I am rather depressed to find so many apparently condone it.
This whole "it's only e bay so buyers and sellers alike can just mess everyone around however they like" attitude is exactly what gives it a bad name.

 

[Fergie 307]

If you pay by PayPal and there is a problem, for instance the item does not turn up, e-bay will wash there hands of the problem and refer you to PayPal, I had this recently when the seller even got hold of a UK Post office signed receipt, not signed by me and not from the sellers registered address, but from an agent address in London, PayPal sided with the seller, it took a lot of correspondence asking for the Customs forms before PayPal would even consider the claim, they still would not refund the monies, my next action was with the Ombudsman who wrote to PayPal and suddenly PayPal begrudgingly paid me back with a "On this occasion" comment, meanwhile I contacted Nationwide Visa who's card I use to pay my PayPal account, there was no argument they just refunded the monies, so I was actually paid back twice, I contacted Nationwide Visa and offered to re-pay, they told me to put it into my savings account, the amount was £590.00, this is a real life experience not hearsay.

That is a very good point. The card providers very rarely have any qualms about returning your money, in my experience at least. So I too have my pay pal account linked to my bank MasterCard account.

 

[Rich C]

In my last eBay dispute, item not as described, seller didn't want to refund, I went to eBay having paid with PayPal. They dealt with it themselves and sided with me.

 

[Fergie 307]

I have only had a few disputes over the years but it has always worked out ok in the end, although it can be a very slow process. You can find exactly the opposite approach as well. A while ago I bought a part for the Merc from a salvage place on e bay, that I had never used before. Advertised as in good condition. I messaged them when it arrived to point out that two wires in the loom were broken and had been joined together with chop block, not really my idea of good condition. I told them I intended to repair the loom and see if it worked, and let them know. Without further ado they not only gave me a full refund, but sent me a replacement part as well. Having repaired the loom the original part worked perfectly, but they refused to hear of me returning the extra one, or the refund. Needless to say they now have a regular customer!

 

[TRITON]

cast iron, green and heavy

I read this as Black, Heavy...and Pendulous.

Watched the rocky horror on disney+ last night

 

[SamG340]

Hi all,

Ive won a bid on a Wadkin machine (Sunday eve) Ive not paid yet, I sent the seller an email this morning, just requesting some details, but so far no response.

As its over £1k, I thought it was reasonable to ask some more details - the description is “good working order” and “good condition no faults” so just wanted to check that’s correct.

So far Ive had no reply, should I be concerned?

TIA

£1000 item and he wont even reply to you ? That would set alarm bells ringing for me

 

[Jonm]

Many of them started asking for more pics after winning the item.

Was that because they wanted more information or because they wanted confirmation that the item was in your possession by asking for a specific picture.

 

[mikej460]

Well this post set a hare running didn't it best case is this guy isn't an experienced seller, doesn't have an eBay account so sold it through someone else's account. So all messages go to the other person's account which she has to relay to the owner. He listed he would accept cash on collection which is always a good sign. The worst case is that he was an eBay seller and was banned. Collection is definitely the right move - have you collected it yet?

Edit: just read you opted for delivery - I hope it works out right after all this angst

 

[woodieallen]

I read this as Black, Heavy...and Pendulous.

Watched the rocky horror on disney+ last night

Sounds lie a dubious **** film

 

[TRITON]

Sounds lie a dubious **** film

You must have seen the Rocky Horror Picture Show ?. Its about as famous and cult as the original Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy.

 

[RobinBHM]

Not really a criticism of the OP, just my view from the other side of the argument

sellers get the worst deal on eBay, there are lots of scammer customers…they claim it never arrived, arrived broken, arrived short in qty…….often all lies. eBay sides with the buyer - as their business model relies on confidence of buyers.

 

[Jonm]

That is wrong. If you place a winning bid on e bay you are entering into a legally binding contract to buy the goods. If you refuse to pay for the goods without a valid reason, and that is broadly limited to the item not being as described, or not fit for purpose, then you have broken that contract. If the seller was prepared to go to the trouble of taking you to court over it they would undoubtedly win. No body does of course because it would be too much hassle, so you just block that buyer from bidding on your stuff in future and contact the next highest bidder or relist it. Likewise whilst the seller can decide not to sell the item and withdraw it at any time before the auction ends, if they let the auction run to a winning bid and then refuse to let you have it because it didn't fetch as much as they wanted, they too would be in breach of contract. Regardless of the law, or the likelihood of anyone ever taking any kind of legal action in these circumstances, this is just a very poor way to behave, and I am rather depressed to find so many apparently condone it.
This whole "it's only e bay so buyers and sellers alike can just mess everyone around however they like" attitude is exactly what gives it a bad name.

I appreciate what you are saying but eBay is different in that they actively discourage any contact between seller and potential buyers (Edit- except written contact via the eBay system). I understand that they will ban people that their scanning process suspects of trying to make contact before the auction is finished, they basically are more concerned about their fees than allowing proper inspection of goods prior to sale. I cannot think of any other selling method for second hand goods where a sale price has to be agreed without the opportunity to physically inspect the goods or talk to the seller on the telephone. In these circumstances it is likely that buyers will want re-assurance that all is well and sellers should expect that to be the case. If the seller and buyer are both genuine the sale should proceed but with caution on both sides.

The OP wanted reassurance that “good condition” was indeed exactly that and became concerned that there was no reply. Sellers of machinery could post a video of it working. I have done this for a dumper, forklift and a vice. Most sellers do not do this. The video of the fork lift demonstrated its slope climbing and lifting abilities but also plenty of black smoke.

 

[Jonm]

sellers get the worst deal on eBay, there are lots of scammer customers…they claim it never arrived, arrived broken, arrived short in qty…….often all lies. eBay sides with the buyer - as their business model relies on confidence of buyers.

My experience is the exact opposite. Never had problems with selling, buying I have had one attempt to scam me out of thousands.