Bringing goods from the EU

[RobinBHM]

20 was the year of the potato, but pick a year, any year, and find the surplus product, and you will find the EU dumping it abroad

Please can you tell me what that has to do with the EU.

The article doesn't mention EU....it says European potato fries.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Please can you tell me what that has to do with the EU.

The article doesn't mention EU....it says European potato fries.

"In a news story published by iAfrica, titled “Urgent Action Needed To Protect SA’s Potato Industry“, it is said that South Africa is a key destination for processed potato product exports from the EU “where there is a history of dumping”. This is set to have a negative impact on the country’s agricultural sector and surrounding communities, according to the news article."

Am I reading the wrong article? The bit I looked at was "exports from the EU “where there is a history of dumping"".

 

[JohnPW]

I see from the Beeb article:

"This essentially means that overseas retailers sending goods to the UK are expected to register for UK VAT and account for it to HMRC if the sale value is less than €150 (£135)."

That's a breathtakingly arrogant expectation; so I can see why retailers are telling the UK to fornicate off.

The stuff I'm being quoted for is well over that figure, and would be delivered by courier, so I guess the courier will treat it like an import from (say, the USA) and charge the duty and VAT. Well, usually import duty on the value of the item + shipping, plus VAT on the import duty charge, plus VAT on the item value, plus (usually) a handling charge (the fee for their time to charge you a fee)... and then (of course) the VAT on the handling charge (the tax on the fee for their time to charge you a fee).

I'm basking in the warm glow of reduced red tape, and freedom. Cough.

It's actually EU law that the UK has decided to keep, or had to.
They could have written:
"This essentially means that overseas retailers sending goods to the EU are expected to register, collect and pay EU VAT if the sale value is less than €150."
and it'll be true.

Also, the exemption for low cost items has been scrapped under this law as well.

 

[RobinBHM]

"In a news story published by iAfrica, titled “Urgent Action Needed To Protect SA’s Potato Industry“, it is said that South Africa is a key destination for processed potato product exports from the EU “where there is a history of dumping”. This is set to have a negative impact on the country’s agricultural sector and surrounding communities, according to the news article."

Am I reading the wrong article? The bit I looked at was "exports from the EU “where there is a history of dumping"".

And what does it have to do with the EU?
Is it EU directive?

Maybe I am wrong, but I though goods only went somewhere when a buyer orders them.

So are you saying companies in SA and NZ are choosing to buy Potato fries from EU rather than a domestic supplier?

In which case that's a commercial decision nothing to do with the EU......why aren't you complaining about the NZ and SA companies buying cheaper abroad rather than supporting domestic farmers



It's funny how you complain the EU is protectionist and yet here you complaining of insufficient protectionism.

 

[Noel]

It's actually EU law that the UK has decided to keep, or had to.
They could have written:
"This essentially means that overseas retailers sending goods to the EU are expected to register, collect and pay EU VAT if the sale value is less than €150."
and it'll be true.

Also, the exemption for low cost items has been scraped under this as well.

Indeed, the Low-Value Consignment Stock relief has been binned.
Another thing I noticed is that reclaiming VAT on expenses from EU states will now move to a paper based system and done on an individual country basis. Globally leading the red tape race.....

 

[Trainee neophyte]

It's funny how you complain the EU is protectionist and yet here you complaining of insufficient protectionism.

The EU subsidises it's agricultural production. This causes excess production. The surplus is "dumped" outside the EU, causing significant hardship in countries where the farmers don't get subsidies, but have to compete with subsidised food. I would prefer, and most farmers I know would also prefer, that the subsidies were stopped so the market wasn't so squewed, both inside and outside the EU. I'm not calling for more protection, or more legislation, or more government. Quite the opposite.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

The common agricultural policy started in 1962 mainly to:

• support farmers and improve agricultural productivity, ensuring a stable supply of affordable food;
• keep the rural economy alive by promoting jobs in farming, agri-foods industries and associated sectors.

This meant state subsidies, in part due to concerns over food security following WW2 and then the cold war. Later we had butter mountains, and wine lakes as the EU bought surplusses and stored them.

Only fairly recently has common sense prevailed - sell it at knock down prices rather than pay to store it until it is ultimately unfit for human consumption.

Not that it should concern any of us in the UK now we have left - Boris would no doubt be very happy that another Brexit benefit has emerged!

 

[sploo]

It's actually EU law that the UK has decided to keep, or had to.
They could have written:
"This essentially means that overseas retailers sending goods to the EU are expected to register, collect and pay EU VAT if the sale value is less than €150."
and it'll be true.

Also, the exemption for low cost items has been scrapped under this law as well.

I thought it was, but I was confused as to why EU sellers were unhappy with the situation re selling to the UK.

Ironic that a rule to get non-EU sellers to collect the VAT now hits EU sellers shipping to the (non-EU) UK.

 

[Jake]

It's actually EU law that the UK has decided to keep, or had to.
They could have written: "This essentially means that overseas retailers sending goods to the EU are expected to register, collect and pay EU VAT if the sale value is less than €150."
and it'll be true. Also, the exemption for low cost items has been scrapped under this law as well.

Participation by the foreign seller in the EU version is voluntary - they can just ship it and allow VAT to be charged in customs. If they want to offer a slicker speedier more convenient service, they can register to charge the VAT and account for it themselves.

The new UK one purports to be mandatory.

 

[JohnPW]

Participation by the foreign seller in the EU version is voluntary - they can just ship it and allow VAT to be charged in customs. If they want to offer a slicker speedier more convenient service, they can register to charge the VAT and account for it themselves.

The new UK one purports to be mandatory.

Voluntary would be more sensible.

Although the following is not very clear and "voluntary" is not used.

From:
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/modernising-vat-cross-border-ecommerce_en

• An import scheme will be created covering distance sales of goods imported from third countries or territories to customers in the EU up to a value of EUR 150.

Unlike today, when the import scheme is used, the seller will charge and collect the VAT at the point of sale to EU customers and declare and pay that VAT globally to the Member State of identification in the One Stop Shop (OSS). These goods will then benefit from a VAT exemption upon importation, allowing a fast release at customs.
The introduction of the import scheme goes hand in hand with the abolition of the current VAT exemption for goods in small consignment of a value of up to EUR 22. This is also in line with the commitment to apply the destination principle for VAT.

• Where the import OSS is not used, a second simplification mechanism will be available for imports. Import VAT will be collected from customers by the customs declarant (e.g. postal operator, courier firm, customs agents) which will pay it to the customs authorities via a monthly payment.

 

[Jake]

It's the bullet point at the end of your clip.

 

[billw]

I'll be interested to see how mandatory it is when stuff starts piling up at customs clearance centres because it's been sent without doing the VAT paperwork. What they going to do? Send it back? It's the only option, because asking the importer to pay up is a loophole in the entire process.

And remember this scheme is global, not just the EU. There's surely going to be people in some countries sending stuff over who haven't the faintest idea about the rules.

 

[RobinBHM]

The EU subsidises it's agricultural production. This causes excess production. The surplus is "dumped" outside the EU, causing significant hardship in countries where the farmers don't get subsidies, but have to compete with subsidised food. I would prefer, and most farmers I know would also prefer, that the subsidies were stopped so the market wasn't so squewed, both inside and outside the EU. I'm not calling for more protection, or more legislation, or more government. Quite the opposite.

The "potato dumping" articles you link show it has nothing to do with subsidies.
EU distributors have excess stock due to Covid and have lowered prices to try and clear it.

If you want to talk about agricultural subsidies you need to compare EU with other countries and other considerations.....it's a complex subject, rather more involved than "EU bad".


EU subsidies are accepted by WTO

This "decoupling" of subsidies means they are accepted in the "Blue box" category of subsidies in the WTO Agreement on Agriculture negotiated at the Uruguay Round, in line with international agreements to reduce market-distorting subsidies and price controls

 

[bryan267]

How things were in 1973 vs now as a reason to dismiss Brexit issues is not really relevant is it? I mean, how many Italian Lira did you get to the GBP in 1973 vs now (yes, I know Italy doesn't use the Lira anymore - that's my point about comparisons with 1973).

As it happens - I'm also looking into import related issues for some kit. The Danish seller can now give me a price (EUR, ex VAT) but what'll happen when it hits the UK is still not 100% understood. There is a UK Government web page that details import duties, but it "helpfully" tells me:

The Brexit transition period has ended and new rules on tax and customs on goods sent from abroad now apply. This page is currently out of date.

So, that clears things up then.

After that there is a link that tells you to go to the uptodate page, or there was for me, if your using the link from earlier in this chat then yes it is now out of date

 

[Jake]

I'll be interested to see how mandatory it is when stuff starts piling up at customs clearance centres because it's been sent without doing the VAT paperwork. What they going to do? Send it back? It's the only option, because asking the importer to pay up is a loophole in the entire process.

Agree, they are doing it because they do not have the capacity to process the VAT at the border. They'll have to make a choice as to whether to process the VAT on the lower priced stuff in customs clearance as well as the higher value stuff, just waive them through VAT-free, or rejecting the shipments/binning them. The first seems more likely, but it will take time and money to get the extra capacity - the reality may be this is only really intended as a stop-gap in the knowledge it is unenforceable. If they just let them through without VAT, it's a big hit for the revenue (which is no longer gathering VAT on exports flowing the other way) and a massive 20% price advantage for EU retail exporters to the UK over domestic suppliers. Quite a challenge and no surprise at all it has been fudged rather than risen to (as yet).

 

[sploo]

After that there is a link that tells you to go to the uptodate page, or there was for me, if your using the link from earlier in this chat then yes it is now out of date

The only update link I found at the time dealt mostly with travel, rather than import rules and tariffs. Unless I missed something?

EDIT: Yea, it looks as though the page I previously found has been updated with a new link. Searching through (what I understand to be) the correct tariff pages, all the relevant codes I'm looking at list VAT (understandably) but a "Third country duty" of 0%. Some years ago I imported some machinery from the US and the details were pretty clear (4% duty, and that's what I was charged). So... to anyone that knows more about this... am I right in thinking that for these (audio parts related) items coming from an EU nation I should only be charged 20% VAT (plus probably some handling charges)?

Tariff page here: Commodity code 8518900000: Parts - The Online Trade Tariff - GOV.UK

 

[Peterm1000]

VAT doesn't have anything to do with Brexit - I think. It's a tax on goods and services and the tax falls due where the "supply" happens. If you buy something in a German store, it is subject to German VAT. If you buy it in the UK, it is subject to UK VAT. The difference (I believe) is that there are no import / export duties due on goods travelling within the EU (and the UK is no longer part of the EU so the thresholds have changed). If as a business you buy something from a German retailer to be delivered to the UK, it is subject to UK VAT (as it was before Brexit). The German retailer can either charge you UK VAT using their UK VAT registration OR they can invoice you reverse charge where you use your own UK VAT registration to bill yourself UK VAT. If you are an individual, they need to charge UK VAT to be allowed to sell to you. If they don't the goods can be stopped by customs. Given the vast amount of stuff that gets shipped from China via Ebay without any VAT being charged, I think there are some loopholes, but if you do this, you are taking a risk.

 

[sploo]

VAT doesn't have anything to do with Brexit - I think. It's a tax on goods and services and the tax falls due where the "supply" happens. If you buy something in a German store, it is subject to German VAT. If you buy it in the UK, it is subject to UK VAT. The difference (I believe) is that there are no import / export duties due on goods travelling within the EU (and the UK is no longer part of the EU so the thresholds have changed). If as a business you buy something from a German retailer to be delivered to the UK, it is subject to UK VAT (as it was before Brexit). The German retailer can either charge you UK VAT using their UK VAT registration OR they can invoice you reverse charge where you use your own UK VAT registration to bill yourself UK VAT. If you are an individual, they need to charge UK VAT to be allowed to sell to you. If they don't the goods can be stopped by customs. Given the vast amount of stuff that gets shipped from China via Ebay without any VAT being charged, I think there are some loopholes, but if you do this, you are taking a risk.

Yep - understood. The Danish seller would ship without Danish VAT and the import would be handled by FedEx (so they'll do the relevant customs processing). Paying the UK VAT is expected, and fine; I just didn't want to get any nasty surprises whereby it turns out I also have to pay some (large) percentage of import duty on the value of the items + shipping. As far as I understood, imports from the EU into the UK should be 0% rated, so it should just be the 20% VAT plus any handling charges by the courier?

 

[billw]

As far as I understood, imports from the EU into the UK should be 0% rated, so it should just be the 20% VAT plus any handling charges by the courier?

That's how I understand it.

 

[Lefley]

We have this tax thing in Canada. Sort of. We live on the Alberta/ British columhia border. Anything we buy in bc is subject to bc tax. But if we order from alberta and get it shipped to bc there is no sales tax. As Alberta has no sales tax. Now if we buy a car in Alberta anc then register it in bc. We get hit with a tax at the dmv. But small stuff no. A lot of house builders buy material in Alberta and drive then to bc. They are suppose to declare and pay tax if going into a bc building. But most have projects in Alberta also so they have a price advantage unless they get to big and get audited.