Brace, non ratchet

[mathias]

I'm slowly building a set of hand tools for woodworking and I've started to look for braces. There is a lot of information here about ratchet braces and less about the non ratchet versions. As they are much simpler I imagine the choice would be which one has the better chuck?

I'm a metric person and still have no bits for braces. This means I would like the brace to handle hex, round and traditional square shafts if possible.

I live in France since 2001 so recommendations for french braces are welcome too, otherwise I don't mind buying from UK (ebay etc or forum members).

I've recently bought a Footprint and Miller Falls (young N°2) drills with the help/info here at UKWorkshop so I'm fine there for the moment.

 

[Jelly]

Basically, you won't find everything you want...

The square taper bits which are common on augers, spoon bits and various specialist bits, are compatible only with the two jaw chuck's with a pair of 90° v-notches... As common on almost all braces, ever.

The hex-shank bits common for power drills require a three jaw chuck, as two jaw ones will just chew it up (angles are wrong for the v's to grip)... Braces with 3 jaw chuck's are rarer, and confined to the modern era, but I believe they are still made.

Round shanks will work equally well with both designs of chuck.

Also, non-ratchet braces tend to be older, and slightly less common, but in practice there's no actually difference in price or performance that would point to the non-ratchet version.

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Was going to suggest Gaignard Millon on Rue Jules Vallès in Paris, but they only list a 4 jaw brace at the mo.
Worth a visit for other stuff though.
They do carry Veritas, so may be able to source their hex bit adapter for braces - alternatively fine-tools in Germany have an adapter

 

[xy mosian]

I have used a hex shaft auger in my Stanley brace, two jaw. I cannot really remember the experience other than it worked and I don't remember the process being one I would not repeat.
If you feel strongly then it should not be too difficult to have a hex socket driven into a round bar as an adapter.
xy

 

[Bm101]

I have a German made Flott brace. (ebay, few quid) It has a reversible ratchet (works both ways) but you can turn it off. It also takes square, round and hex bits. 3 jaw chuck. I belive mine was made in '75 but this was only seller information and I have no way to verify it. Doesn't matter in the end really. It works really well. Living in France you might find one more available than here in the UK perhaps?
There was thread on them a while back.
anyone-good-at-identifying-braces-t81138.html

My one's a bit newer than those. Just marked Flott and on the other side 'Foreign'.

Worth a look.
Cheers
Chris

 

[Cheshirechappie]

It might be worth considering the holes you are likely to drill. I think for furniture work, most will be smaller - 1/4" to 1/2", with only the occasional larger size needed. For joinery work, that may be different. It's very tempting to put together a 'set' of bits for the brace - I know, because I did. I went to a great deal of trouble and expense to complete my set of Jennings pattern bits, 3/16" to 1 1/4" - and have never used about half of them. I've also found that turning bits larger than about 3/4" in hardwoods with a 10" sweep brace is just about impossible, though it may be easier with bits having closer-pitched leadscrews - assuming you can find any.

Braces with ratchets are quite heavy. Non-ratchet braces are lighter to use, and just as strong. For new furniture work, I haven't found much use for a ratchet on a brace, but for furniture, joinery and home repairs, they can be handy.

One of the most useful bits for braces is the screwdriver bit - very useful for removing stubborn screws during repair work. A selection of three or four different sizes is most useful, an has saved my bacon on more than one occasion.

If I were starting again, I'd find a good 10" sweep ratchet brace, a smaller non-ratchet brace, a few smaller sizes of twist bit, a selection of older-style centre bits (the sort with no leadscrew) in medium and larger sizes, three or four screwdriver bits and a few countersink bits. That kit should cover pretty well all eventualities except Windsor chairmaking, for which a few specialist bits would be needed.

 

[mathias]

Very useful information, many thanks to you all. Good to know about German braces, I'll start looking at ebay.

I also doubt I will use the ratchet and have read about less weight so thanks for the confirmation.

If the limit for a 10" brace is around 3/4" bit then how make bigger holes?

 

[dunbarhamlin]

A ratchet lets you take advantage of just the strongest part of your sweep. Alternatively, eat more spinach, get a bigger brace or an auger

 

[Vann]

I live in France since 2001 so recommendations for french braces are welcome too, otherwise I don't mind buying from UK (ebay etc or forum members).

I picked up a 10" Val d'or brace - but it has a ratchet.

If you want to nip across to New Zealand you can have it :wink: .

Cheers, Vann.

 

[mathias]

I would love to visit New Zealand!

I've seena few Val d'or for sale here. How do you find the quality?

 

[ED65]

The hex-shank bits common for power drills require a three jaw chuck, as two jaw ones will just chew it up (angles are wrong for the v's to grip)...

I don't know that that's universal, I was delighted to discover recently that I could chuck up a hex driver socket quite successfully in my Stanley 78. The small V notch in the end of the two jaws, pic, can grip the opposing corners of a hexagon firmly even though the gripping area isn't large.

I was threading some holes recently, some in hardwood, with improvised self-tapping Pozi screws so I needed a good amount of torque and the brace did the job nicely.

 

[AndyT]

I've just done a few experiments and this is what I have found.

I assume you want to use modern, metric bits, as well as old styles. The only modern, metric auger bits I have came from a B&Q sale, are presumably Chinese or Indian and I expect they are available the world over. They have parallel hexagonal shanks of about 10mm across the flats.

Trying to hold these in any of my old braces with an ordinary pair of 'alligator jaws' was pretty hopeless. The jaws are hinged at the back, so that they open to a taper, to suit the square tapered ends on old bits. Trying to use one on a big hex shaft, the jaws grip only at the very tip of the shaft, and the rest wobbles about. You might manage to bore a hole, but I don't recommend it. The common brace chuck is fine for gripping the smaller 6mm hex found on cordless screwdriver bits and accessories, as it is small enough to fit inside the central notch in the alligator jaws.

A three jaw chuck - as found on a chest brace/ wheel brace/ belly brace - opens parallel and would grip these just fine.

I don't have a brace with a three jaw chuck, but I do have the Stanley 144 discussed in this thread.

It has a four jaw chuck which is pretty well universal.

It holds old brace bits, round bits and is fine on the 10mm hex shafts as well. Theoretically, a hexagon does not fit nicely into a square, but in practice it is so close to circular that the off-centredness is negligible and the grip is excellent.

The trouble is, I've never come across another one like it - and it has a ratchet. So, unsurprisingly, my recommendation is that you make room for a selection of different braces, not just one. :wink:

 

[clauskeller]

Hi Mathias,

IMHO the very best braces are the Yankee models from North Brothers, Philadelphia. The have a much better ratchet mechanism than all the others. And they came with a lot of different sweeps. They have two jaws

Here are mine, the one on the right is a small Millers Falls, all other are Yankees:



Good luck

Claus

 

[bugbear]

Hi Mathias,

IMHO the very best braces are the Yankee models from North Brothers, Philadelphia. The have a much better ratchet mechanism than all the others. And they came with a lot of different sweeps. They have two jaws

Here are mine, the one on the right is a small Millers Falls, all other are Yankees:

Good luck

Claus

Gentleman, the thread has been won, and comprehensively to boot.

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

Agreed. That's a fine collection.

 

[GLFaria]

Wouldn't these adapters do? (see bottom of page)

http://www.fine-tools.com/bohr1.html

G.

 

[AndyT]

That's the best range of new, muscle-powered drilling tools I've seen anywhere and should provide everything the OP needs.

 

[mathias]

Andy, do you mean the four-jaw chuck braces made in Taiwan?

 

[AndyT]

Andy, do you mean the four-jaw chuck braces made in Taiwan?

I was struck by the choice, which even includes new old stock bits and some adapters I've not seen elsewhere, but yes, if you want a new brace which will fit a variety of bits, they look worth a try.

Of course, old braces are also available from the usual sources, and everyone needs a few!

 

[Billy Flitch]

A good while back i was looking up information on braces and came across Randy Roeders site on Millers Falls productions.
There is some absolutely fascinating information Like Millers falls in 1915 producing 135 different variations of the hand brace.
How little the barber brace jaws have changed since they where invented in the 1800`s.


Any way here is the link if you get to the bottom of the site click on Home for a whole pile of information that kept me fascinated for yonks.
http://oldtoolheaven.com/biography/biography.htm