Boxing in Gas boilers

[Crocks]

Does anyone have experience or knowledge of any UK fire regs about boxing gas boilers. We have 2 in a care home currently boxed with 8mm hardwood ply. Fire survey suggested we look at the materials. Thoughts and references welcome.

 

[Spectric]

If you look at the installation manual for the boiler it will give minimum clearances, mainly for access purposes. It is quiet common for boilers to be hidden in kitchen cupboards and providing you have ventilation around the boiler then there should be no issues. With your boiler running you will find that the outer casing does not even get hot unlike the older boilers of yesteryear, it is because they have a sealed combustion chamber that no longer draws air in from the room and have a very different design to the big old cast iron burners that just lasted a lifetime. Who did the fire survey, in an enviroment like yours you will already have all the required fire alarms, smoke detectors and CO monitors.

 

[Bingy man]

In short yes - 1st step is to confirm any boxing in with the manufacturer instructions. If it’s a modern condensing boiler then the boiler surface temperatures are usually low and no fireproofing is normally required-however the manufacturer will specify clearances around the boilers and care must be taken not to obstruct the removal of the outer case and access to the flue for testing etc. if the entire flue assembly/ flue elbow is boxed in then provision of inspection hatches shall be provided ( eg flue in voids ) to it’s also adviseable to ensure any boxing in is easily removed ( future maintenance or replacement of the appliance) but if in any doubt always refer to the manufacturer instructions ( clearences around boiler - applies to above and below, left and right and to any surface directly in front of the appliance eg a door..

 

[Jamesc]

Unfortunately there is no definative answer on this. It is down to a risk assesment.
Whilst this may seem to be a pain it is actually quite sensible. No two installations are ever exactly the same and circumstances can dictate different aproaches. Are the boilers room sealed? does the boxing provide adeqate space around the boilers not only for ventilation but also servicing? Are there other services which may affect the boiler? Is it close to another source of heat etc.

I would suggest you discuss it with your surveyor. If may be a case of he thought it worth flagging up and a quick look at the boiler manual and he will be happy or there may be something to do with your installations that have made him query them.

 

[baldkev]

I had to put a kitchen unit over a boiler. It was a nightmare. Not the work, but the plumber!
He agreed we coukd do it, as per kitchen design, then moaned at the customer that i was enclosing the boiler. So he cane round for a visit, i showed him how the cuboard could be dissasembled by popping off the door and 6 screws.
He seemed happy and left. Then he phoned the customer again to complain

 

[Bingy man]

I had to put a kitchen unit over a boiler. It was a nightmare. Not the work, but the plumber!
He agreed we coukd do it, as per kitchen design, then moaned at the customer that i was enclosing the boiler. So he cane round for a visit, i showed him how the cuboard could be dissasembled by popping off the door and 6 screws.
He seemed happy and left. Then he phoned the customer again to complain

Yep I’ve met plenty of engineers like that over the years / too much like hard work for them to remove a few screws or a door on quick release hinges .

 

[user 35906]

All boilers come with installation instructions that override everything else. Different boilers have different requirements and so long as the instructions (that came with the boiler) were followed to the letter you were okay.

This is taken from a Worcester installation manual, so you really need the instructions for your boiler and no one can argue with them. Most can be downloaded from the internet.

 

[user 35906]

Yep I’ve met plenty of engineers like that over the years / too much like hard work for them to remove a few screws or a door on quick release hinges .

I have been there lots of times. corniches and architraves all glued on and then sealed around with silicone and the customer wonders why you are reluctant to start taking it apart when you know it will never go back the same.

 

[Bingy man]

I have been there lots of times. corniches and architraves all glued on and then sealed around with silicone and the customer wonders why you are reluctant to start taking it apart when you know it will never go back the same.

A few screws etc were never an issue for me but the situation you describe above is a little different. I always would have a conversation with the customer and agree a plan . In most cases the kitchen had been recently installed so the fitter could be brought back to alter the offending area to suit .if this wasn’t possible then it was up to the customer to decide. While never accepting liability for any damage caused it was not uncommon for me to make the necessary adjustments to get access to the boiler. Hence why it’s always better to get it right first time -kitchen fitter/ gas engineer and customer all on the same page . Went to a job recently to install a washing machine and dishwasher, asking the customer why the brand new gas cooker was not fitted and she sighed heavily. Turns out the gas engineer wouldn’t fit it as the extractor was less than 750 mm from the hopbplate . I removed it and the adjacent cupboard so the glass safety lid could be fully raised and lowered. I spoke to the engineer on the phone and explained what I’d done -no probs he said I’ll be there tomorrow to fit the cooker. Got another call of the customer to say he still couldn’t fit the cooker as now the cornice was less than 750mm as I was nearby I called in before he left - what’s the problem now I asked ? The cornice is too close he says - but you never said this the other day when we spoke on the phone, a quick look and 3 screws later the cornice was removed- I simply said to the engineer install the cooker or refund her money and I’ll fit it myself-you can’t he said as your not gas safe - showed him my i d card and he was speechless . Sorry rant over.

 

[Seascaper]

Does anyone have experience or knowledge of any UK fire regs about boxing gas boilers. We have 2 in a care home currently boxed with 8mm hardwood ply. Fire survey suggested we look at the materials. Thoughts and references welcome.

Hello,
Sometime ago I boxed in a boiler with mdf and there were no problems with regards approval, however I had to dismantle it when the boiler engineer needed access to replace some parts. Since then I have replaced the boiler and because it was a different size no longer have it boxed in. From a visual point of view the modern housings are good looking and there are indicators, lights and screens to see and check so it would seem better to have the boiler unboxed. It does rather depend on where the boiler is sited, for example mine was sited in the bathroom and one engineer said that because you could reach it from the shower it had to be boxed in. If you have it in kitchen it is quite normal to install in kitchen unit.
I soon discovered that each engineer had his own areas to dwell on plus gas safety guidelines change.

 

[user 35906]

I removed it and the adjacent cupboard so the glass safety lid could be fully raised and lowered. I spoke to the engineer on the phone and explained what I’d done -no probs he said I’ll be there tomorrow to fit the cooker. Got another call of the customer to say he still couldn’t fit the cooker as now the cornice was less than 750mm as I was nearby I called in before he left - what’s the problem now I asked ? The cornice is too close he says - but you never said this the other day when we spoke on the phone, a quick look and 3 screws later the cornice was removed- I simply said to the engineer install the cooker or refund her money and I’ll fit it myself-you can’t he said as your not gas safe - showed him my i d card and he was speechless . Sorry rant over.

He couldn't fit it the first time because the lid couldn't be raised and the second time You should have known that the clearance required above the cupboard also needs to included the cornice. Trouble is if he removed the cornice he is taking the risk that someone refitted it when he has left.
Daft as it sounds I was once asked to move a combi flue terminal because it had been fitted too close to the soil pipe (I had not fitted it) the service engineer doing the annual boiler service flagged this up. I went around and it was 2mm to close to the cast iron pipe, the customer was not impressed as everything was working fine and he had decorated inside around the boiler. Technically the engineer was right. Luckily by removing a bit of cement around the flue it was manipulated across slightly without causing damage in the house to gain the required 2mm
Trouble is there is always someone trying to justify their existence finding fault so you have to cover your back.

 

[Bingy man]

He couldn't fit it the first time because the lid couldn't be raised and the second time You should have known that the clearance required above the cupboard also needs to included the cornice. Trouble is if he removed the cornice he is taking the risk that someone refitted it when he has left.
Daft as it sounds I was once asked to move a combi flue terminal because it had been fitted too close to the soil pipe (I had not fitted it) the service engineer doing the annual boiler service flagged this up. I went around and it was 2mm to close to the cast iron pipe, the customer was not impressed as everything was working fine and he had decorated inside around the boiler. Technically the engineer was right. Luckily by removing a bit of cement around the flue it was manipulated across slightly without causing damage in the house to gain the required 2mm
Trouble is there is always someone trying to justify their existence finding fault so you have to cover your back.

Yes I agree with what your saying a couple of year’s ago ( maybe longer) B.GAS removed the requirements for us to notify customers of n t c s situations-not sure if the same applied to self employed gas safe engineers but we were still expected to highlight these when we were being accessed by the safety compliance engineer. It led to maximum confusion and so called grey areas. My old manager had a simple solution to these situations around clearances a - on fire =immediately dangerous- b scorch marks = at risk and c no issues-= not to current standards . Thank god I’ve left that company and won’t be re- newing my gas safe . I once went to a service on a new installation and the safety engineer phoned to ask where I was . I’d already AT RISKED the flue ( lack of support and too many bends and the flue obstructed the loft hatch . safety eng turns up and agreed with my decision until I told him it was installed by us ( b gas) 12 months ago .suddenly he said no it’s only ntcs as it complied when it was installed- I said no it’s at risk unless he takes the job off me and signs his name to it . He wouldn’t so at risk it was - cust informed who naturally kicked off as it was January and cold . Install went back next day to re do the flue and I was given a written warning. Yep glad I’m doing other work now without the stress and political c..p .