Bowl Centre Savers

[paulm]

Am toying with the idea of investing in a bowl centre saver, something like this one

http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Turning ... elton.html

Has anyone any experience of these, or alternatives ?

Most of the blanks I use tend to be 10" to 12" dia and 4" to 6" deep, not sure if these are big enough to work well with this type of system ?

Like the idea of saving timber rather than turning it all into shavings, and also thinking it gets a bit boring on the larger bowls so may save some time and effort too.

Thanks for any advice.

Cheers, Paul

 

[cornucopia]

hello, i do not use them myself but i know a few chaps who do and most of them use the mcnaughton system- mike mahoney does a dvd about it it might be worth getting that before making up your mind.

 

[big soft moose]

I have one and it is ace - the only thing i'd say is get the mini system unless your lathe has a lot of power.

mine is 0.5hp and really struggled with a standard - swapped for the mini and it works great

and btw with the mini you can save two centres (ie make a nest of three bowls in total) out of a 4" block - tho the middle one is a bit titchy

 

[wizer]

I'm not a turner but I must admit I'd always wondered if there was way not to wast all that timber when making a bowl. Seems like a fantastic idea. Are there any YouTube vids of them in action?

 

[PowerTool]

Here's one which almost shows you how to use one.. :wink:

Andrew

 

[paulm]

I have one and it is ace - the only thing i'd say is get the mini system unless your lathe has a lot of power.

mine is 0.5hp and really struggled with a standard - swapped for the mini and it works great

and btw with the mini you can save two centres (ie make a nest of three bowls in total) out of a 4" block - tho the middle one is a bit titchy

Hi BSM,

With the mini version and the 4" block you mention I guess the 4" is the depth or thickness of blank that you start with ?

So is it the thickness of blank that determines how many bowls you can get from a blank rather than the diameter of blank ?

What is the smallest size bowl and the largest you can do with the mini size if you know please ?

On that link I posted, I am not sure if you have to buy the mini plus all the individual cutter arms or whether the mini comes with some or not and the seperately listed arms are optional ?

Sorry for so many questions !!!

Not so worried about the lathe power as mine has a 3 phase (with invertor) 2hp motor so hopefully wouldn't be the limiting factor, just not clear which version would get the best from the blank sizes I use most :-k

Thks, Paul

 

[Paul.J]

This is the one i like.
Haven't used it nor any other.

 

[big soft moose]

I have one and it is ace - the only thing i'd say is get the mini system unless your lathe has a lot of power.

mine is 0.5hp and really struggled with a standard - swapped for the mini and it works great

and btw with the mini you can save two centres (ie make a nest of three bowls in total) out of a 4" block - tho the middle one is a bit titchy

Hi BSM,

With the mini version and the 4" block you mention I guess the 4" is the depth or thickness of blank that you start with ?

So is it the thickness of blank that determines how many bowls you can get from a blank rather than the diameter of blank ?

What is the smallest size bowl and the largest you can do with the mini size if you know please ?

On that link I posted, I am not sure if you have to buy the mini plus all the individual cutter arms or whether the mini comes with some or not and the seperately listed arms are optional ?

Sorry for so many questions !!!

Not so worried about the lathe power as mine has a 3 phase (with invertor) 2hp motor so hopefully wouldn't be the limiting factor, just not clear which version would get the best from the blank sizes I use most :-k

Thks, Paul

yep its the depth that is the limiting factor - add about 1" thickness per centre saved.

the mini/standard/large are seperate systems each has three blades. I get about 10" dia max on the largest centre.

with your lathe i'd go with the standard - the large isnt necessary unless you have very big timber.

you can also get a deep hollowing system that fits on the kel handle and tool post which is well worth a look.

 

[Blister]

As far as I understand it . they only work correctly with wet wood

I have watched some clips on the net and they are nearly all wet

Roughed out and left to dry then Finnish turned

 

[wizer]

thanks for the links. looks like a bloody economical way to save wood and make sets

 

[paulm]

Thanks for the feedback guys, and interesting vid, will do some more research and check out prices further, whichever system it would pay for itself eventually I guess, although it would be better if worked okay with dry blanks too.

Cheers, Paul

 

[Richard Findley]

Hi Paul,

I've got the Woodcut and, although I don't use it that much, I am very happy with it. It's totally idiot proof (not questioning your IQ :lol: :wink: ) I guess the only limiting factor is that you can only get one shaped save, rather than the various cones etc you can achieve with other systems but, as I understand it, with a lot of practice!!!

I don't really get wet wood so all mine is done dry. The only difference, as with all turning, is that it's easier when wet. My lathe has 1Hp and as long as I take it easy and listen to what the lathe tells me then I'm ok:

These 2 bowls were made from a bit of dry Oak, if I remember correctly about 10" x 3". Came out ok!

HTH

Richard

 

[paulm]

Thanks Richard, is indeed very helpful.

See what you mean about one shape only, do fancy the idea of bieng able to be a bit more flexible in practice, and with practice ! :lol:

Been trying to get hold of Peter at the Toolpost yesterday and this morning to ask his advice on the McN, sizes etc and to see what he has in stock, but haven't been able to contact yet on email or phone although their site does say they are open :roll:

Thanks very much.

Cheers, Paul

 

[paulm]

Caught up with Peter eventually and am going for a trip to Didcot in the morning to pick up one of the McN mini centre savers which by all accounts are just the right size to core a 10" blank from a 12" round and then down in size from there, which sounds just right for what I need.

You can buy seperate cutter arms next two sizes up apparently for doing bigger stuff and use with the main system you get withthe mini, although Peter has no stock at the moment.

A bit pricey, but I probably should have got one years ago when I look back at all the good timber turned to shavings for the compost bin :shock:

Getting some of Paul C's lovely walnut (see avatar :lol: ) was what made my mind up as much to precious to waste as shavings, so it's all your fault Paul when my missus finds out (hammer) :lol:

Cheers, Paul

 

[paulm]

Had an easy run up the A34 to Didcot this morning, quite pretty in the frost and -2 degrees :shock:

Got there 10 minutes before opening time but luckily Peter had just arrived also so didn't have to sit in the car waiting.

Had another chat about the McN and we figured that the mini size should do most of what I need, but the addition of the tighter curved cutter from the next size up (standard) should make sure that I can go that bit larger if needed.

Seems a well planned system as once you have the initial system, even the mini that I got, you can use any of the standard or large cutters without any problem, as long as you buy those cutters of course and they sell them seperately, so seems very upgradeable (cost allowing :shock: ).

Invested in the Mike Mahoney dvd as well to see how it should be done, and a new 4" faceplate for the lathe and a bottle of endseal to top up the dunking trough for sealing blanks.

For anybody interested in turning and within an hour or two of Didcot, it's well worth a visit to the Toolpost as Peter has a lot more stock there now than when I last went a year or two ago, and covers everything from turning tools, finishes, blanks etc but also has some hand tools including some LN and Veritas gear, and a good range of dvd's and books etc.

After a similarly easy run back home and some lunch I took an hour out to watch the dvd, noted how easy and straightforward it seemed and went out to the workshop to have a play.

Having wisely decided not to learn using a piece of the best walnut, I chose a modest sized ash blank and turned the outside of that to shape before reversing it and mounting onto the 2" O'Donnell jaws on my larger chuck as I couldn't be bothered changing the jaw set over.

Big mistake :shock: (homer) the cutter is really really aggressive, as it needs to be, and a slightly less than deft touch from me and the bowl blank ripped out of the (very well tightened) jaws and spun across the workshop, luckily missing me (who had in a rare moment of commonsense decided to put a face shield on, just in case), and not doing any damage anywhere. Quite exciting though ! :roll:

Decided that I might be best advised to try the biggest set of jaws I have after all and a much larger spigot on the blank, and decided that I might retreat back to the house for a cup of tea and another session with the video and perhaps try again in the morning when I feel braver :lol:

Was thinking of taking some pics but didn't get as far as having anything to snap, though an action shot of the flying blank would have been entertaining :lol:

Cheers, Paul

 

[big soft moose]

I totally agree about toolpost - i go there a lot (although i live in wiltshire i work in oxford so its quite handy for me) Peter is a top bloke and always ready to have a chat (and quite often a brew if not busy).

Did you buy a diamond slip stone for sharpening as well - if not i'd get one as the kel system blade needs to be kept razor sharp and a diamond touch up is a lot easier than doing it on the grinder.

and yes 2" jaws is not a good idea - I usually put mine on a substantial spiggot held in my 4" jaws on the versa chuck (another top product from tool post ).

and finally if you are going to use this on relatively green walnut you need to widen the kerf (as per the dvd) as the increased shavings to dust ratio from green wood can clog the cut resulting in a jam and flying tools/bowls or both.

 

[paulm]

Thanks for the advice BSM, I was too eager to get started and try out the new toy !

Spent a bit of time this afternoon rescuing the practice blank of ash that went into orbit yesterday :roll:

Put some sensible sized 4" mega gripper jaws on my versachuck, that I was too lazy to do yesterday and these worked a treat, no danger of coming loose with those and a decent 5mm spigot on the blank.

Forgot to take the camera in with me so only the after shots today I'm afraid, here's the cored out blank

The McN was quite a challenge to use for the first time, even having watched the dvd first.

Not a lot of fun on the well dried ash and I guess I was a bit nervous after yesterdays events, but the tool is quite aggressive and it is taking a while to be able to manipulate it smoothly enough to avoid sudden lurches and catches.

That's probably also down to the fact that you need to move it in ways and directions that are totally different to normal turning tools.

Anyway, although only a small practice blank of around 9" x 4" it was immensely satisfying to get the core out eventually, probably too small to do much with, but I was more interested in trying to master the tool before getting going on the better stuff.

Having got a bit more confidence, I used the new 4" faceplate I picked up yesterday and some 1 1/4" coach screws to mount a piece of the walnut around 10" x 5".

Was great using the faceplate, supported lightly by the tailstock as well, although the still wet blank was very heavy and out of balance it felt very secure on the big Wivamac lathe.

Proceeded to turn a rough outside shape to the blank and put a decent sized spigot on for the chuck. Was a pleasure to turn the wet timber, cut beautifully, nice long ribbons flying everywhere, a real treat after wrestling with the dry and dusty ash earlier.

Won't get anymore done tomorrow unfortunately as off to Paul C's to return some slabbed walnut and pick up some more logs for conversion

Will have to re-true the spigot again just before I mount in the chuck and use the centre saver as it will probably have gone a bit oval by the time i get to it, but left plenty of meat on it should be fine.

Was slightly annoyed that having been very careful to centre the heartwood perfectly in the blank when cutting out initially, it runs off at an angle through to the bottom of the blank and so doesn't look so well centred there, but should be a couple or more beautiful bowls out of that hopefully, if of course I can tame the beast of the McN centre saver :lol:

Hoping it should be a bit more forgiving on the wetter timber but we'll see :lol:

Cheers, Paul

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hey, that's looking good, Paul - almost as much fun as turning screwdriver handles

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[cornucopia]

excellent wip piccys Paul, how much of this walnut have you got? are you going to rough it all out into bowls or is some going for other projects?

always do what you feel safe with but .............imo coach bolts are a bit over the top for such a small blank you might find pan head sheet metal screws much quicker and still a very strong hold- how many holes has that new faceplate got in it? it looks like 4 or 6? i would increase this to 12 or so- countersunk from behind to make a really usefull plate.
best wish's
george

 

[paulm]

Hi George,

Been enjoying your wip pic's too, have inspired me to get turning again as I haven't been doing too much of late, and good to see you just getting on with it

There's loads of the walnut, most cut into slabs around 3' long by 11" or so wide and 2 1/2" deep for cabinet making. Once they dry out a bit they can be cut down further as necessary and should make some lovely bookmatched door and box panels for example. So far I think there have been 9 or 10 of those slabs.

I used one half log for cutting some deeper turning blanks like the one in the pic, some bigger and some smaller.

I think Paul C has about the same volume again left from the main trunk, and a pile of branch wood including some nice crotch pieces, so we'll see what we can make of it tomorrow.

Still to negotiate with Paul how much stays with me for "proper woodworking" as well as spinny stuff :lol:

The faceplate has eight countersunk holes in total I think. I used only the four closest to the centre so as not to compromise on the bowl potential and the 1 1/4" coach bolts were about right, going around 3/4" into the timber itself (the faceplate bieng around 1/2" or so thick.

The coach bolts were easy enough to drive in using my Makita impact driver and hex driver bit, they were only around 5mm diameter, just right for the job I think, they went in no bother at all but had a nice coarse thread to give good grip and sufficient core thickness not to need too many of them. I was quite keen to avoid another blank going into orbit :shock: :lol:

Hope that there aren't any losses due to cracking of the roughed out bowls, not sure whether to end seal them again or not just in case ?

Cheers, Paul