Bought a new toy.......Axminster AWFS18

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

I fancied treating myself and thought I'd buy myself (yet another one lol) a saw/toy.
I'd read so much here about the Axminster AWFS18 that I 'wanted' one rather than need one !
Anyway, it arrived yesterday and although it is a good enough saw, I feel I wasted my money.
It's well built, quiet with minimal vibration and has a good blower but that's as far as it goes for me.
The table is far too small.
The switch is too fiddly.
Blade changing takes ages and even the Hegner quick clamps,although an improvement, would be nowhere near as fast as I'm used to on my DeWalt 788....I guess I've been spoilt.
Look away now if you're the sort to worry about invalidating your guarantee 'cos I'm not !

The saw arrived lunchtime and by late evening I had adapted it to make it a half decent saw.
I used part of a top arm off an old Delta and a Diamond bottom blade holder.
Here are a couple of pics........

This pic shows the Diamond blade holder.
As a bottom holder, these Diamond clamps work fast and positive and are superbly engineered.

Although I have made this a fairly fast working saw, it's not a patch on my DeWalt so it will be stored in the corner of my workshop as yet another back-up saw LOL :wink:

 

[Gill]

Thanks for the detailed photographs and review, Alan.

Having never used an AWFS18 myself, I'm going to sit back in my rocking chair outside the town gaol, polishing my 'Sheriff' badge, waiting for the AWFS18 posse to ride into town.

Got your Delta/Smith & Wesson hybrid loaded?



Gill

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the detailed photographs and review, Alan.

Having never used an AWFS18 myself, I'm going to sit back in my rocking chair outside the town gaol, polishing my 'Sheriff' badge, waiting for the AWFS18 posse to ride into town.

Got your Delta/Smith & Wesson hybrid loaded?



Gill

Ha ha Gill, I love your sense of humour !

I suppose I should've made it clearer that my needs from a scroll saw are fast blade changing and fast efficient cutting. I get this already with the DeWalt but we always think the grass is greener if you know what I mean. I tried the Axminster and it didn't do what I want it to hence my drastic alterations !
That doesn't take away the fact that the saw is a perfectly good saw for users who can put up with it's shortcomings which for most people will be minor, it's just not suitable for me.
I hope this stops the Axminster users posse from trying to lynch me but hey, if it comes to a showdown, my DeWalt is much faster than an Axminster LOL.

A note for all Axminster AWFS18 users :

When I first tried the saw I was surprised to see the stroke was about 12mm. The small manual made no mention of altering the stroke but I did remember reading that Hegners have 2 stroke settings. As the Axminster AWFS18 is a Hegner clone I decided to undo the motor/arm linkage to check and sure enough, you can have either a small stroke or a larger 20mm one. I altered it to 20mm (the advertised stroke length) and cutting improved for thicker wood.
It's my guess there are a few Axminster AWFS18 users here using a small stroke and don't even realise it !

 

[chrispuzzle]

I notice that Alan's two main criticisms - slow blade changing and a narrow table - would be the same for a top-end Hegner itself. As for the switch, I am not sure what's "fiddly" about the switch unless it is that the variable speed knob doesn't switch the machine on and off as well. But isn't that supposed to be good practise these days, so you can protect the on-off switch from clogging with dust by encasing it in polythene while the speed change is a separate knob?

The news about the variable stroke is interesting. I only cut jigsaw puzzles so I don't need a faster cut: I want a refined, gentle cut that I can control with great precision. I guess one other advantage of retaining the smaller stroke is that you can then use a false table - yay, a *larger* table customised to Alan's requirements - to extend the use of the blade.

But Alan, you miss the huge advantage the AWSF18 has over your Dewalt 788 and your Delta machines for that matter: you can buy it in the UK. Your machines just aren't for sale here any more and shipping costs are atrocious. If I was in the US I'd certainly be looking at a Dewalt or more likely the big 30" Excalibur. But I'm not so I don't.

Given that UK scrollers can't buy your favourite saws without paying huge shipping costs (and more huge shipping costs if they do need to send it back) what saw do you think would not be a waste of their money?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Chris,

I'd like to say it is not my intention to upset Axminster owners.
However, relating my observations of the saw is important to the members here who need as much information as possible if contemplating a purchase.

Let me take your last point first and say that I said 'I felt I wasted my money'. I didn't say the machine was a waste of money so your loaded question is unfair !
I have addressed your question later on though.

Fiddly switch :
The switch on the Axminster is too small, badly placed and not very positive. Try an up-top, in-yer-face controlled machine and you'll know exactly what I mean !
Newer machines coming on the market are adopting the up-top controls because they are more efficient and safer.

False table :
Yes Chris, you could fit a false larger table but there are negatives as well as positives to doing that. If you use a false table that is too thick, reverse blades might not work.
The beauty of the Diamond bottom blade holder I fitted is that it is adjustable for vertical position.Couple that with the machines rear tension adjuster to adjust the top arm and it's possible to set the machine up for many varieties of blade or situations. This is exactly why a Diamond saw is so versatile.
I think the best choice for improving the working area would be side extensions that fit flush with the existing table.

You are absolutely right about not being able to buy Delta or DeWalt machines in this country and it's a real shame as it leaves us UK scrollers with little choice of good machines. Being able to buy the Axminster in this country is a compelling argument in it's favour but it doesn't make my observations any less valid.
There are enough second-hand Delta's around to last us for years and now, with the recent experience of the Axminster, I would opt for a (much cheaper) second-hand Delta anyday as, having had 4 of them, I know they are great little machines ! In fairness though I have to say the Axminster is better engineered than a Delta if logevity is in question. I wore out a few Deltas simply because they are not designed for constant use. I should point out that my machines get used a lot !
For the casual/medium user, a 16 inch Delta will last for years and certainly won't be a waste of money.

I can justify the amount of money I'm prepared to spend on a saw that ticks all the boxes for me as it's for business use and that saw is a DeWalt 788....My yellow beauty !

 

[StevieB]

Hi Alan,

Not sure why you say the switch is a problem and fiddly - did your AWFS18 not come with the top mounted NVR switch? Personally I found the top mounted switch a complete pain and simply bypassed it but it is an option if you like up there in your face switches! Axminster state that it was added so the machine could be used in schools and meet H&S requirements, but I found it impractical for hobby use.

Table size is better than most in my opinion, and much better than the teardrop shaped tables which offer limited support at the rear when cutting large pieces.

Would be interested in some pics or further details of exactly how you altered the stroke length from 12 to 20mm. My only gripe with the saw is that I find compound cutting a problem, but assumed this was me rather than the saw. If you have a mod that makes deep cuts easier then perhaps its not me after all! I certainly have not changed my setup from factory supplied with respect to this.

Blade changing is indeed a pain without quick release clamps, but as I do limited piercing cuts anyway (heck I do so little at the moment I havent even posted here for a while) its a limitation I can certainly live with.

For me its a vibration free cast iron saw with good build quality that will last a good long time. I got mine as a cheap return from Axminsters store so am more than happy with the machine. Not used a Delta or a Dewalt so cannot compare, but have got a Diamond which is sitting under my bandsaw collecting dust - really didnt get on with it at all. At some point it will go back on ebay. Perhaps we need a scrollers picnic akin to the US events to compare and contrast a range of saws - scrollfight at the OK corall kind of thing :wink: I would still be happy to recommend the AWFS18 from my own experience.

Steve.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Stevie,

The saw did come with the safety NVR/Emergency stop extra switch but it can only be used as an emergency off switch. Sure, you have to initially switch the NVR on to get juice to the machines switch but after that you power on/off by the machine. This system is nothing like the up-top controls of the DeWalt or similar machines and was added by Axminster to make it acceptable for educational use. Like you Stevie, I found it a pain !

I'm not sure where you're coming from when you mention limited support at the rear of a teardrop table and the Axminsters narrow oblong one being better ! Maybe you get a bit of extra width at the back for larger pieces but by heck, you ain't got no width to support relatively small pieces on the Axminster let alone large pieces ! Let's face facts here, the Axminster table width is a limitation of it's (bad) design to allow 45 degree cutting. The optimum table shape is circular with a larger size being the best to give all-round support.

You say you've never used a Delta or DeWalt to compare against the Axminster and that's given me the idea of doing a video clip of blade changing on the DeWalt. Give me a bit of time and I will make your mouth water when you see the sheer speed the DeWalt works at.

In the meantime, here is a pic showing the bolt to undo to alter the stroke length.
In the flywheel on the motor there is a hole for placing a lever when you undo the bolt. Be careful when you take the bolt out as there are a couple of washers between the linkage and the motor cam.
It's very important these washers go back in the same place as they position the linkage for optimum alignment.
With the bolt out you'll see 2 holes in the motor flywheel/cam.
Put the bolt (and washers) back into the hole closest to the outside for a 20mm stroke and voila !
It should take no more than about 10 minutes to do.
If you've had problems with reverse blades not working properly, the 20mm stroke will help cure it.

Hope this helps,

Alan

 

[StevieB]

Brilliant, thanks Alan - I will have a go at changing the cam lever over to a 20mm stroke length this evening

Steve.

 

[chrispuzzle]

Alan -

I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you meant by saying it was a waste of your money. I thought you were saying this in order to inform other people that they might also be wasting their money.

I still don't understand the issue with the switch at all. Why do you want it "in your face"? Surely it is better near your hand? I don't think I would see the difference as I only turn the machine off to change a blade and I only change the blade every 30 minutes or so. It's just not an issue for my type of work.

I know there are negatives as well as positives with a false table, the main point was about the 12mm stroke. It's a different approach, side extensions would work too. And I agree about the blade changing, it's the worst aspect, but it doesn't bother me and Gill seems to get on well with Hegner clamps with her work.

As you say, there are lots of secondhand Deltas - although I notice not as many on eBay as there used to be - and some of them were good machines, but the problem with secondhand Deltas is as you point out: if its been heavily used it might be clapped out, and if the blade changers break on the second day you ain't going to be replacing them any time soon. I also notice that, as far as eBay is concerned anyway, nobody wants to sell their AWSF18s.

I really wasn't trying to suggest your observations weren't valid. I'm trying to add some positives which I think in your account were very much subordinated to your comments about the switch and the blades.

 

[Anonymous]

Chris.....The issue I have with the switch is a simple one. I do a heck of a lot of internal cuts and small object cutting etc etc. I am constantly turning my machine on and off with the type of work I do. Reaching under the Axminster table and fumbling for the switch does nothing for productivity !
As you only turn your machine off every 30 minutes or so you won't find it an issue.
A footswitch is one solution but I'm not a great lover of using one. I much prefer a hand operated switch. The best solution as far as I'm concerned is a well and sensibly placed switch on top of the machine. Simple, effective and very efficient.

As for Deltas breaking down, I never had a problem getting spares via my local Tool shop and you can get spares for the DeWalt as well so it's not such a big deal.

And a lack of AWSF18s on eBay ? A simple case of percentages as many more Deltas are around compared to AWSF18s.
Or.....I could have a laugh and say that if DeWalt started selling the 788 again in this country, eBay would be flooded with AWSF18s LOL.... He he !!

 

[chrispuzzle]

As for Deltas breaking down, I never had a problem getting spares via my local Tool shop and you can get spares for the DeWalt as well so it's not such a big deal.

And a lack of AWSF18s on eBay ? A simple case of percentages as many more Deltas are around compared to AWSF18s.
Or.....I could have a laugh and say that if DeWalt started selling the 788 again in this country, eBay would be flooded with AWSF18s LOL.... He he !!

Well there aren't any Deltas or Dewalts on eBay at the moment either...used to be rather more. Perhaps you've bought them all for hybridisation??!

Have you really had no trouble getting spares since Delta stopped selling saws in the UK? Delta is still supplying agents with spares for machines it won't let them sell?

If Dewalt started selling the 788 again here my Axe might be the first on eBay though what I would most like to see on the UK market is a machine with a really large throat like the 30" Excalibur.

I may just have to build one...sigh... :twisted:

 

[Anonymous]

No I am not guilty of buying all the saws put on eBay Chris.
Maybe we should ask Gill as I know she has a shed full LOL !!

The only reason I can think that Delta and DeWalt still supply spares is aftersales support. It would be a pretty poor show if they didn't in my opinion.

A 30" throat...hmmmm ? Would be good for a puzzle maker like yourself I suppose but I can imagine it would be a nightmare swinging a puzzle round to maximum throat depth !

 

[Gill]

No I am not guilty of buying all the saws put on eBay Chris.
Maybe we should ask Gill as I know she has a shed full LOL !!

OY!



That's a bit rich coming from the guy with goodness knows how many saws listed in his signature block . I'm sure I could spare a Diamond if someone was to make me a decent offer, but the rest of my saws are staying where they are. They all have their own strengths and weaknesses, excelling at some types of cuts and struggling with others. I've not been able to get into the shop much recently, but when I do I'll have a use for them all. Okay, so I prefer my Hegner 2VS for most jobs but the DW 788 runs it a close second, and when it comes to using slow speeds or cutting large boards there's little to compete with the Diamond (on this side of the Pond, anyway).

Isn't this conversation really about what would constitute a perfect scroll saw? It's a shame we don't have the same choices as our 'Murrican acquaintances; I would certainly be drooling over the Excalibur and Eclipse. Back in the eighties (or possibly before then?), a group of engineers realised they could make better fret saws than were available on the market at that time: thus was born the Diamond, a saw which set new standards internationally. Although the Diamond still has much to commend it, time has passed and the competition has not stood still. What we need now is another Diamond for our times.

Gill

 

[StevieB]

Well, I managed to get down the cellar over the weekend and my AWFS18 is already set for a 20mm stroke. Since I bought it as a return from Axminster at one of their sales I have no idea whether it was factory done and supplied this way or the previous owner changed it over. Looking at the hole however the shorter stroke hole shows no sign of wear so I suspect its factory spec.

Only down side is that I still cannot compound cut to any great level of accuracy and still have nothing to blame it on apart from my poor skills

Steve.

 

[jonbikebod]

Alan,
I bought the Axminster jobbie six months ago. I had been hankering after a scroll saw for a while and had done some research and come to the conclusion the Axey was a good solid machine for the money. Then I started reading this forum and learned it is a clone of the benchmark Hegner. So on my next trip to Sittingbourne there was a dust ex-demo machine for half price; serendipity seemed to be smiling on me. I concluded the NVR would be much better used on my router table and then found others had done the same here. But I was rather disappointed with the cutting performance. I had bought some Axminster blades and supposed they may be at fault. I noticed the blade was bending backwards badly and increased the tension to a melodic twang but still it cut very slowly. Having never used a scroll saw before I assumed it was mostly my expectation that was wrong. Then yesterday I caught up with your thread.
This morning, before heading out to work (late shift) I had a look at my saw. I suspected that as an ex-demo mine like Steve’s would have been changed to long stroke but the cover screw was tight and let go with a promising crack. Sure enough the ‘con rod’ was in the inboard hole. With it in the outer hole it suddenly worked as I had expected it to, cutting with ease at a rate that only required me to steer the wood. The dust puffer works better as well.
The manual that came with the saw is a hilariously bad translation but I hadn’t realised the stroke was adjustable. Actually my band saw is two speed and I have never felt the need to change it from the low speed it came set to. My pillar drill lives on the lowest speed and I only ever used to change it for bobbins (now I have a dedicated machine for that). But with the scroll saw, more of the blade sees action and the maximum velocity the blade achieves is considerably higher for any given motor speed and the gullets get a better opportunity at the top and bottom of the stroke to clear. Suddenly it works the way it was designed to and the way I expected it to.
So, cheers!

 

[pixy]

Hi guys I bought an AxminsterAWS18 some months ago It's been great but of late it seems to have been grabbing the wood and lifting it up and down, it also wont cut acuratly its all over the place.I lost my manual and can't find any oiling points are there any . Sorry I'm a bit useless mechanically Mal
PS the blade is definitely in the right way round

 

[pixy]

Hi Its me again I did say I was a useless mechanic, how do you get it of to change to 20mm?????
Mal

 

[jonbikebod]

Hi Pixi,
You need to work out what exactly is happening between the wood and the saw blade. To do this in a safe and controlled way – turning it through the cutting cycle by hand – you need to remove the cover that you will need to remove anyway to check or change the stroke. The cover is a bit of cream coloured steel sheet under the table on the left hand side. Mine had a label in it and it is fixed in position with one cross head screw (Philips No 2). Waggle to cover a bit and it should be obvious where the screw you need to remove is. With the cover removed your saw will look like the photo posted by Alan earlier in this thread. Turning the round flywheel by hand at the same time as moving some wood towards the blade should have the wood slowly lifting in the same way as it did under power but this time slowly enough for you to see what is going on.
First is to double check the blade is cutting on the down stroke, pushing the work down onto the table at the same time. The only other reason the wood will be significantly lifted is if you are using very this wood (i.e. veneer) and trying to cut it with a course blade. There is a rule for all sawing that at least three teeth should bear on the material being cut. That is one reason why saws and saw blades come in a range of tooth ‘pitches’ (the number of teeth in one inch of the blade). The thin material and course pitch blade would allow the work to drop into the space between the teeth and so tend to lift it. Another factor is blade tension and I have found too little tension makes the blade more inclined to grab as does too slow a cutting speed. Both of these situations tend to have you pushing the work onto the blade faster than it can cut.
One final possibility would be faulty blades incorrectly stamped or set. Try another blade that you have checked carefully under a magnifying glass (if necessary).
With all those things sorted out it should now cut but perhaps rather slowly.
Go back and look at the photo Alan posted and there are instructions how to do it there but I will put it in my words as well so between us you should get an idea what you need to do.
With the power disconnected, you need an 8 mm socket or ring spanner. This is to undo the bolt head the red arrow is pointing at (anti-clockwise). You will also need to hold the big wheel behind it with your hand or the wheel will turn instead of undoing the bolt. When the bolt is almost out of it’s hole, put your hand underneath to catch the washers and spacers that will drop out. These need to go back where they came from in a moment. If you completely remove the bolt you will find even more washers and spacers under the bolt head. If there are removed (no need) they also have to go back as they were.
OK, you now should be looking at the central boss projecting forward from the flywheel (the bit you were holding to undo the bolt). There will be two threaded holes in this boss. One closer to the centre of the boss and one more out towards the edge. The one out towards the edge is the one that gives the saw a longer stroke. The bolt was probably in the other hole before and has probably left a mark. Threading the bolt into this outer hole with all the spacers present and correct is the only fiddly bit and the bolt is tightened just the same as loosening but this time turned clockwise. It doesn’t need to be mega tight, just nipped up so it will not shake itself out. Now replace the metal cover and screw and enjoy your newly transformed saw…. :wink:
Jon.

 

[pixy]

Hi there thank for that advice It's actually what I had been doing but I was trying to hold the weel with my hand ,then the penny dropped I saw the hole were I put a round bar to hold it steady then he presto job done, This again may seem a stupid question but should I be greasing or oiling it at all and ifso were. By the way I do'nt no weather you ever use mini drill for carving or sanding .I do and my proxon went on me after only a few months ,I have replaced it with a very reasonable priced fordom type heavy duty flexy drive from axminster for around £85.00 and it's fantastic.I have just stated doing segmentation with MDF . Mal

 

[jonbikebod]

Hi Mal,
As you saw when you took the drive bolt out, it passes through a ball bearing (in the end of the straight rod). In this instance it appeared to be sealed and so it would not be normal to lubricate these as they are ‘lubricated for life’ - that is the life of the bearing of course but they should be quite easy to replace should the need arise. I haven’t been using a scroll saw for long so experience from the more knowledgeable on this forum could be lubrication is necessary but as a rule, oil and grease attracts saw dust which stops it from lubricating as it should – hence the wisdom of sealed bearings and reduced maintenance.
I got one of the Axminster Dremel clones with the flexible drive quite a while ago. I have since seen them on special offer of sixty or seventy pounds. I confess I prefer old fashioned gouges and chisels for carving but the cutting disks and sanding drums and burrs is a boon for small work.
Jon.