Block plane advice please

[EdK]

Hi - I am pretty new to working wood and would like to buy a plane for general use and to learn how to use one properly.

I thought I'd start off with a block plane as I think that this is a fairly useful tool for my needs. I enjoy making greenland style kayak paddles and spearguns etc. So far the paddles have been carved in the traditional style but I saw a video of a guy making one and he used a block plane for part of the process. I am also rennovating a house and anticipate needing more tools but would like tools that cross over between my hobbies and my needs for a dry house

Anway, I was given 70 quid recently and thought that would get me a decent block plane. Initially I read some reviews on this site last month and settled on an LN one but am unsure on the advantages/disadvantages of low angle etc.

I think that eventually over the next year or so I will end up buying about two or three planes but probably no more.

Any advice or help or criticism ?
Cheers
Ed

 

[Mirboo]

Block planes are bevel up planes. This means that the planing angle is the sum of the bevel angle of the blade itself and the angle at which the blade is bedded. A low angle Lie-Nielsen with a 25 degree bevel on the blade will therefore have a planing angle of 12+25=37 degrees. The standard angle Lie-Nielsen on the other hand, with a 25 degree bevel on the blade, has a planing angle of 20+25=45 degrees.

The advantage of the low angle block is that if you want a planing angle of 45 degrees, or even higher, you can simply increase the bevel angle on the blade. Going the other way, reducing the bevel angle in a standard angle block to simulate the planing angle of a low angle plane, is impractical. The bevel angle becomes too fragile with angles less than 25 degrees. The low angle block is therefore the more flexible plane in my view because it can achieve all of the planing angles that the standard angle block can achieve. The same cannot be said of the standard angle plane.

A lower planing angle is better suited to planing end grain while a higher angle is more appropriate for planing face grain. The trickier the face grain, the higher the angle that is required to minimise tear-out.

I own a Lie-Nielsen 60-1/2 low angle adjustable mouth block plane and I reckon it's a little beauty. The Veritas would also be a good buy and comes with the added advantage of things like the chamfer guide and alternative handles that can be used to expand the flexibility of the plane.

I think that eventually over the next year or so I will end up buying about two or three planes but probably no more.

Famous last words. :lol:

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Ed,

Alf did a very good review of the Veritas range of block planes here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1815

I have the low angle one and can confirm that it is an excellent plane.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[sparky]

hi ed

i cant overstate my appreciation for my low angle veritas block plane.

since i only have two planes (the low angle block and the veritas low angle jack) this planes ability and versatility is a wonder. the additional handles (totes) are great and the ease of changing the blades is great. i have the standard 25 degree blade for general stuff, end grain etc. but i also have the 37 degree blade (comes to 50 deg.) for smoothing which combined with the additional totes makes this a wonderful little smoother (about the size of a stanley #3). i like this because my jack is sometimes too big to work as a smoother easily.

again i can't recommend the veritas enought

sparky

 

[dchenard]

I have the LN 60 1/2 low angle block plane. It is beautiful to look at, heavy enough to power its way through a job, but to me, while it has a sole IMHO it has no soul. It feels like going around a racetrack with a bulldozer :shock:

I bought the LN because I felt I should buy something else than Veritas at some point, but in this case I regret not having bought the Veritas LABP. I tried it last fall with the tote and knob attachments, and was laughing myself silly at the fun I had...

One funny thing about the LN... Even though I sharpened all the blades the same way, I could get a cleaner cut on end grain with either the Veritas apron plane or even a cheap Groz low angle block. There's no reason for this to happen, yet the results were there... Weird...

If I were to choose a low angle block plane today, I'd go for the Veritas without hesitation.

DC

 

[woodbloke]

I have an adjustable mouth LN block which is a little beauty. I've tried the offerings from Record and Stanley over the years and have always been hugely disappointed, not so with the LN. Which ever block plane you buy (LN or Veritas), the quality will be there and it will be infinitely better than a cheapie - Rob

 

[Alf]

First up, the warning. You are teetering on the brink of a Very Steep Slope Indeed. Don't come to us in six months and say we didn't warn you, 'cos we did, okay? :wink:

Secondly, LN or Veritas, low angle, standard angle, adjustable mouth, apron, whatever, they're all entirely dependable planes so you could just as easily take a pin and choose that way.

Thirdly, given your budget I'd go with the LN 102 - I have the 103 (standard angle, bronze) but the principle's the same - heavy little sucker, no adjustable mouth but so far I've never found that an issue. On paper the 102/103 wouldn't be the first choice - in practice it just leaps to the hand time after time. Stump up for the bronze IMO. Why the 102? 'Cos as Ian says, you can make a low angle act like a standard angle, but not vice versa.

To put that suggestion in context I have a small block plane Problem so I know I pick up the little LN over the LN 60 1/2 and Veritas virtually every time.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Amateurrestorer]

Ed ,I have a number of block planes and I tend to agree with my colleagues that the low angle ones are the most useful. I have a veritas ( recently purchased ) and its a belter ,it outperforms the others by a country mile. I wold have gone for the LN one but finances were a bit restricted that week.

 

[ByronBlack]

Alf, the only thing I would say against the LN Apron plane (I owned one for a while) is that the curves sides prevent it from being used on a shooting board which is a big negative for me as that would have really made it perfect.

Do the veritas aprons have square or curved edges?

 

[Alf]

Yep, that's a fair point, BB. The Veritas does have a flat side area (see the review ). In practical terms it's a matter of personal preference whether it makes any difference - again, in theory, I'd count it a nagative like the fixed mouth, but in practice...

Cheers, Alf

 

[Paul Chapman]

Some users do not consider the adjustable mouth feature important. However, just to put the other side, I make regular use of the adjustable mouth on my block planes. In particular, when trimming very small work I find it's useful to close up the mouth as close as you can get it otherwise the mouth can simply be too wide in relation to the piece you are planing. It all depends on the work you want to do with it.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Paul Kierstead]

Alf, the only thing I would say against the LN Apron plane (I owned one for a while) is that the curves sides prevent it from being used on a shooting board which is a big negative for me as that would have really made it perfect.

Well, actually, curved sides do not prevent it being used as a shooting plane. In fact quite a few wooden miter planes (designed for the shooting board) have curved sides. So long as the side is 90 degrees to the bottom, it is ok (though LN makes no guarantees there).

The 102 is a little small though for that, you would probably be banging up your knuckles.

Although in theory a low-angle one can have the blade swapped, that is really contrary to the usefulness of a block plane, which is the plane you grab when you need a touch here and there. The last thing you want is to be farting about switching blades. I quite like the standard angle planes (and it is different in use then a low angle with a steep blade), and have both low angle and standard angle. And skew. Both directions. And ... oh, um, nevermind. Anyway, you should know that if you mostly want to work long grain, you will probably want standard angle (or, at minimum, the steep bevel) as the low angle is really sensitive to grain direction long grain wise. If you see touching up short grain often, definitely go for the low angle.

 

[Frank D.]

I have the LN 60 1/2 low angle block plane. It is beautiful to look at, heavy enough to power its way through a job, but to me, while it has a sole IMHO it has no soul. It feels like going around a racetrack with a bulldozer :shock:

I bought the LN because I felt I should buy something else than Veritas at some point, but in this case I regret not having bought the Veritas LABP. I tried it last fall with the tote and knob attachments, and was laughing myself silly at the fun I had...

One funny thing about the LN... Even though I sharpened all the blades the same way, I could get a cleaner cut on end grain with either the Veritas apron plane or even a cheap Groz low angle block. There's no reason for this to happen, yet the results were there... Weird...

If I were to choose a low angle block plane today, I'd go for the Veritas without hesitation.

DC

That's funny denis,
I had exactly the oppisite experience; I started out with a Veritas LA BP, and now I have 4 LN block planes. I know how happy many people are with their veritas BPs, but mine just never worked for me, and they even sent me a replacement blade.
About standard angle vs low angle, I fond the low angle to be handier for general tasks around the shop. I use my standard angle like a little smoother or whenever I need to avoid tearout along the grain (like for chamfers). I prefer the standard angle bed for this because I don't have to sharpen the blade at a super-high angle and I have more clearance (the edge lasts considerably longer because of these 2 factors).
2p

 

[dchenard]

I have the LN 60 1/2 low angle block plane. It is beautiful to look at, heavy enough to power its way through a job, but to me, while it has a sole IMHO it has no soul. It feels like going around a racetrack with a bulldozer :shock:

I bought the LN because I felt I should buy something else than Veritas at some point, but in this case I regret not having bought the Veritas LABP. I tried it last fall with the tote and knob attachments, and was laughing myself silly at the fun I had...

One funny thing about the LN... Even though I sharpened all the blades the same way, I could get a cleaner cut on end grain with either the Veritas apron plane or even a cheap Groz low angle block. There's no reason for this to happen, yet the results were there... Weird...

If I were to choose a low angle block plane today, I'd go for the Veritas without hesitation.

DC

That's funny denis,
I had exactly the oppisite experience; I started out with a Veritas LA BP, and now I have 4 LN block planes. I know how happy many people are with their veritas BPs, but mine just never worked for me, and they even sent me a replacement blade.
About standard angle vs low angle, I fond the low angle to be handier for general tasks around the shop. I use my standard angle like a little smoother or whenever I need to avoid tearout along the grain (like for chamfers). I prefer the standard angle bed for this because I don't have to sharpen the blade at a super-high angle and I have more clearance (the edge lasts considerably longer because of these 2 factors).
2p

I'm just curious about something here... Size seems to be a factor to many when it comes to which brand they prefer, and I guess hand size is an issue then...

So, if you don't mind, just out of curiosity, how big are your hands? I would rate mine at the large side of medium...

It would be nice to hear from others who chose one brand or another because of the plane's size...

DC

 

[Frank D.]

Oh don't start with that Denis,
I mentioned that once before and people didn't seem too convinced. :lol: Actually I said that a tendency that I've noticed is that people with larger hands often prefer the Veritas, while people with smaller (medium-sized) hands often prefer the LN. But, just to repeat my disclaimer, that's not scientific, nor is it true for everyone, just something I've noticed now and again.
BTW my hands are midium-sized medium, and I did find the Veritas a bit too big for me. :wink:

 

[engineer one]

having planes from both these guys, they are all worth the dosh, but it is true that the size of your hands as well as your experience kind of determines which you prefer. having a straight little finger on my right hand as the result of a long ago motorcycle accident, although i like the LV apron plane, i find i abuse my LN block plane on almost anything that is oddly shaped, and it just keeps on going, and for me at least comfortably.

i think you need to try both.
:roll:
paul :wink:

 

[EdK]

Many thanks for all your advice - I haven't been ignoring it - just busy trying to sort out an old house (Getting there...)

So... after a bit of time away from the forum and much teeth knashing I have gone for the 102 LN bronze.... I figure start small and work up ... who knows, could be a #5 or #5 1/2 in the offing next - will be asking more plane / tool related questions in the future.

By the way if anyone is interested in very small chisels I recently bought some from Japan - very good and very sharp (the nerves are beginning to grow back...) - highly recommended - drop me a line if you want to know where to get them from - I use mine for small carving / netsuke.

Hopefully the LN 102 will arrive before Easter as I have some time off to make a few things.

Ed

 

[Mirboo]

I'm sure you'll be happy with your LN 102 Ed. I don't have one of them myself but I've heard lots of good things about them.

Just on the topic of block planes, I received a phone call last week from Australian Wood Review magazine informing me that I had won a Lie-Nielsen block plane for taking part in an online survey they ran a while back. I now have a LN 9-1/2 winging it's way to me. It will arrive today hopefully.

 

[Alf]

Hey, Ian, that's great - congrats. Nice to know these promised goodies for filling in mag questionaires to occasionally go to the deserving.

Cheers, Alf

Ten...

 

[Mirboo]

Thanks Alf. The plane did arrive today. \/ I haven't had a chance to try it out yet but it looks very nice.