phil.p":h8smj62z said:Very nearly all if not 100% will have been by vehicles that have gone off the road by accident.
Cyclists call that 'pavement driving'
Drivers call it ... crashing!!! :-D
phil.p":h8smj62z said:Very nearly all if not 100% will have been by vehicles that have gone off the road by accident.
phil.p":3u5my712 said:"You may think it's ridiculous, but perhaps you forget that a significant number of pedestrians are killed on the pavement every year by drivers ... " Very nearly all if not 100% will have been by vehicles that have gone off the road by accident.
Wuffles":ocgusixz said:I didn't say it was ridiculous, I said it was a ridiculous question.
Much like trying to explain this to you, ridiculous.
Finial":27o446oa said:.... but perhaps you forget that a significant number of pedestrians are killed on the pavement every year by drivers, and it costs a huge amount in repairs. ...
Jacob":2rbx7hmi said:You are approximately 120 times more likely to be killed on the pavement by a motor vehicle rather than a bike, according to figures I posted up earlierFinial":2rbx7hmi said:....
You may think it's ridiculous, but perhaps you forget that a significant number of pedestrians are killed on the pavement every year by drivers. My point is that people take it for granted that motors will be found on the pavement for the convenience of the drivers, but object when people cycle there to avoid danger.
Just a random google produced the above. Presumably typical and not exceptional."*What the available statistics say
Using DFT figures, from 2007-2008, 60.7 pedestrians were killed on the pavement by motor-vehicles, whereas 0.5 were killed on the pavement, by pavement cyclists. This is based on 10% of pedestrian casualties being on the pavement or verge as was the case 2007-2008. The ratio of pedestrians killed on the pavement by motor-vehicles to those killed by cyclists is therefore 121.4:1. The ratio from 1998-2008 is 820.1:3 or 273:1 (uses the same 2007-2008 10% pedestrian casualties figure).
E&OE. "
Killed by drivers on pavements 60.7
Killed by cyclists on pavements 0.5
Fairly uncommon either way but vehicles kill 121 times as many as cyclists, on pavements alone.
Then according to this http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablo ... death-2011 you are 700 times more likely to be killed falling down stairs than by being hit by a cyclist
Bm101":30n0gpj7 said:9 pages of tosh. No Offense intended.
Whats got hold of people?
I drive in central London everyday. Its the daftest place to ride a bike or drive a car going.
Everyday I see cyclists and motorist breaking every rule of the road. Just this morning at 5.30 am I saw a bus driver nearly kill a fella on a bike. Two minutes later I saw the same bus driver have to brake like mad to let a delivery van in. It's madness. This thread is madness.
Every single day I drive a big old renault traffic on the mirrors. Ive regularly had bikes trying to crowd me out at junctions. Im a pretty considerate driver, even I will will lose my cool. Ive had them cutting me up, in the wrong lanes, jumping lights, turning left and im only on my mirrors mind all of a sudden theres some deathwish silly person slapping the side of my van. Yeh mate its my fault. But theres going to be only one loser in the long term. Same for cars. You name it I've seen it. And there's one answer to it.
Take a breath.There's only idiots to blame, not riders or drivers or motorbikes in general.
Whats up with people.
Take a breath, look, take a second. Spot the silly person and steer clear.
Finial":3ox1c3po said:Wuffles":3ox1c3po said:I didn't say it was ridiculous, I said it was a ridiculous question.
Much like trying to explain this to you, ridiculous.
Go on, try. You can do it. I'm listening.
phil.p":1yq0xcbe said:"You can guess that, but do you have any information?"
And you presumably know of loads of cases of cyclists being killed by people driving on the pavement intentionally? :?
RogerS":15svsnpi said:Bm101":15svsnpi said:9 pages of tosh. No Offense intended.
Whats got hold of people?
I drive in central London everyday. Its the daftest place to ride a bike or drive a car going.
Everyday I see cyclists and motorist breaking every rule of the road. Just this morning at 5.30 am I saw a bus driver nearly kill a fella on a bike. Two minutes later I saw the same bus driver have to brake like mad to let a delivery van in. It's madness. This thread is madness.
Every single day I drive a big old renault traffic on the mirrors. Ive regularly had bikes trying to crowd me out at junctions. Im a pretty considerate driver, even I will will lose my cool. Ive had them cutting me up, in the wrong lanes, jumping lights, turning left and im only on my mirrors mind all of a sudden theres some deathwish silly person slapping the side of my van. Yeh mate its my fault. But theres going to be only one loser in the long term. Same for cars. You name it I've seen it. And there's one answer to it.
Take a breath.There's only idiots to blame, not riders or drivers or motorbikes in general.
Whats up with people.
Take a breath, look, take a second. Spot the silly person and steer clear.
Well said. Very well said.
phil.p":1dw15d7d said:My mistake. OK, then - Do you know of any pedestrians killed by someone driving on the pavement deliberately? Actually that would be murder, not a driving offence.
RogerS":3vn7kgzh said:Finial":3vn7kgzh said:.... but perhaps you forget that a significant number of pedestrians are killed on the pavement every year by drivers, and it costs a huge amount in repairs. ...
Evidence, please.
NazNomad":22xyawj8 said:Finial":22xyawj8 said:Charming! But then you don't understand the issues.
Meh!! I understand enough.
RogerS":3a2zd8gv said:So after four pages, what have we learned ?
Mile for mile ridden or driven, cyclists are just as likely to kill pedestrians as motorists.
If the situations were reversed then I think people would be shouting for some form of insurance for car drivers. Maybe cycle riders should carry insurance, after all?
Just curious here, no axe to grind(either freehand or with a jig), but why is the miles covered metric necessarily more relevant than the time on the road one? How about bollards, or lamp-posts, surely they are far more dangerous according to the accidents-divided-by-miles-travelled formula.RogerS":2onqivei said:Jacob":2onqivei said:You are approximately 120 times more likely to be killed on the pavement by a motor vehicle rather than a bike, according to figures I posted up earlierFinial":2onqivei said:....
You may think it's ridiculous, but perhaps you forget that a significant number of pedestrians are killed on the pavement every year by drivers. My point is that people take it for granted that motors will be found on the pavement for the convenience of the drivers, but object when people cycle there to avoid danger.
Just a random google produced the above. Presumably typical and not exceptional."*What the available statistics say
Using DFT figures, from 2007-2008, 60.7 pedestrians were killed on the pavement by motor-vehicles, whereas 0.5 were killed on the pavement, by pavement cyclists. This is based on 10% of pedestrian casualties being on the pavement or verge as was the case 2007-2008. The ratio of pedestrians killed on the pavement by motor-vehicles to those killed by cyclists is therefore 121.4:1. The ratio from 1998-2008 is 820.1:3 or 273:1 (uses the same 2007-2008 10% pedestrian casualties figure).
E&OE. "
Killed by drivers on pavements 60.7
Killed by cyclists on pavements 0.5
Fairly uncommon either way but vehicles kill 121 times as many as cyclists, on pavements alone.
Then according to this http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablo ... death-2011 you are 700 times more likely to be killed falling down stairs than by being hit by a cyclist
Sigh...How can I explain this in a simple enough way for you to understand? You can't say that unless you factor in the amount of miles driven by each category. Cycling is 1%. Therefore you need to multiply your figure of 0.5% by 100 to be comparable to the deaths caused by drivers. Are you really that obtuse?
Chippyjoe":31bwg43r said:Well my two penneth worth, Some cyclists are morons, some car, bus, lorry etc drivers are morons, so this discussion has no winners.
I think Jacob just likes to pour petrol on these kind of debates, then retires while everyone else "fights" there corner.
People, there are no winners in these type of discussions as there are to many people who will always think they are right.
Probably time for one of the mods to lock this thread, and lets move on. life really is to short.
Right, behind the settee now, so start hurling the abuse lol.
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