Bevel-up, angle low: woodworker confused..

[Jacob]

....
Would anyone wish to grind the minute camber for a smoother? ...

Because otherwise it won't work as a smoother and will leave tram lines. It must have a camber.
In fact all planes are better with a camber.
If you freehand sharpen you tend to get a camber whether you want to or not!

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

You grind the camber on your smoother, Jacob?

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[D_W]

I am one of the people who said grinding a BU plane for coarse work is a pain.

it's not difficult, the issue is that you have to grind a lot more material off than you would with a bevel down plane to get the same result, and then the plane type itself does not feel right in heavy work.

It's not difficult to hone appropriate camber freehand, or grind it freehand. It's easier than resorting to a jig unless one is a beginner. It's sort of like honing a skew iron. It seems hard to a beginner, but the plane tells you all the time whether or not you have it right or what minor adjustment you need to make. The jigs and all of that other stuff are cumbersome, and probably ultimately much less accurate than honing the skew as it needs to be for the plane to work well.

 

[David C]

The amount of metal that needs removing for a camber on a low angle jack, is considerable.

Many many strokes on a coarse stone if you start with a straight edge.

I can assure you that this is much easier and more controlled with the new grinding jig.

Less accurate it is not!

David

 

[D_W]

The less accurate comment was regarding grinding and honing skew irons. For a jack plane, I can't imagine resorting to a jig unless there were repeated repeated failures to understand grinding freehand.

 

[David C]

David,

I generally teach beginners.

They are certainly not going to have freehand grinding skills.

You are starting to sound like the guy who wrote that a 6 inch ruler for the ruler trick was "too much paraphernalia".

David

 

[D_W]

I don't believe the ruler trick offers much of an advantage to a sharpener with experience, but I've got nothing against it other than it's just another thing to locate. I had said long ago on sawmill creek that based on most of the tools I've received from people, if they were honest, they'd admit that they would be better sharpeners if they used the ruler trick and a microbevel.

All of the grinding and honing jigs and flattening stones that should be kept flat just by sharpening, though, seems an impediment - not necessarily to a beginner (who may need it), but beginners are left thinking that various crutches are terminal technique.

 

[Jacob]

David,

I generally teach beginners.

They are certainly not going to have freehand grinding skills.

Should be the first thing they learn. It only takes a few minutes to get the idea. Then they can get by with just the one double-sided stone if they have to, and then proceed to a machine when they can.

You are starting to sound like the guy who wrote that a 6 inch ruler for the ruler trick was "too much paraphernalia".

David

Was that me?
But it's much easier without the ruler. I call it "the without a ruler trick".

 

[ED65]

Because otherwise it won't work as a smoother and will leave tram lines. It must have a camber.

A plane iron does not need a camber in order not to leave tram lines. Standard advice from many sources was to round the corners of a smoother's iron to some degree or other, no camber of any kind.

In fact all planes are better with a camber.

All planes?

 

[Jacob]

Because otherwise it won't work as a smoother and will leave tram lines. It must have a camber.

A plane iron does not need a camber in order not to leave tram lines. Standard advice from many sources was to round the corners of a smoother's iron to some degree or other, no camber of any kind. ....

That is a sort of feeble camber - and it isn't "standard" advice: it's for jig users who can't easily camber a blade in the proper way.

 

[ED65]

Rounded corners are not any sort of camber. Camber is a radiused edge, period.

It most certainly was standard advice to round corners Jacob. It has nothing to do with jigs, this was from before there were ANY honing guides, from the time when freehanding was de facto the only honing method.