Better option for heat treating than a can of butane?

[sploo]

I occasionally heat harden small bits of tool steel/silver steel/drill rod; usually nothing more than 1/2" diameter, but it still takes ages to get it to cherry red with one of those small cans of butane propane mix (the kind where you screw a torch head on the top).

I don't do it often enough (or have enough space) for a "proper" set up of a torch plus various bottles. Is there a middle ground, maybe something the size of a small fire extinguisher, but that'll put out a lot more heat?

Something like this maybe?
Profire Gas Torch + 1x MAPP 435g Bottle Disposable Cylinder plumbers jet burner : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

 

[Inspector]

Search for "one brick forge" and you will get lots on how to make one and the torch to use. One of our wood turning club members (he also makes knives) gave a talk about it and it easily gets the steel to forging temperature.

Pete

 

[Lorenzl]

Induction heaters are very quick and clean

 

[Alpha-Dave]

Induction heaters are very quick and clean

Any further insights please? I have looked at this recently, and the range from £30 caseless things on Amazon to £1,500 professional farrier things is bewildering.

 

[TRITON]

Coffee can forge ?.

 

[Sideways]

Two of those bernzomatic torches with MAPP gas cylinders - one from either side - and the workpiece sitting on soft firebricks to reflect the heat back at them. That setup very quickly got a four inch diameter cast iron gear up to temperature for silver soldering. That's nowhere near cherry red but a second torch and a change of gas isn't too expensive to try.
As Pete says above, with soft firebricks you can also make a coffee can forge like the above even easier. Just drill two side by side holes the length of the brick with a big wood auger bit, then turn them into an oval hole with a hacksaw blade or some such. Finally a third hole for the torch at right angles. No need for a can. The right type of firebricks are really soft. A single brick, single torch setup is enough to harden small knife blades.

 

[Lorenzl]

I would try one of the £38 ones and see how it goes. If you like it you could fix it into a plastic storage box so you don't accidentally electrocute yourself.

 

[TFrench]

If it's just for hardening small pieces like that a mapp torch should do you fine. I'd say it's worth investing in one of the rothenburger auto ignition torches - not only is it nice to not need a lighter or sparker but it seems to swirl the flame and get things very hot, very quickly. Handy if you ever do any restoration work as well for persuading stuck bolts to come loose.

 

[Pedronicus]

I would suggest Rothenburger as well with MAPP gas and a smaller than supplied as standard nozzle to concentrate the heat.

 

[sploo]

Thanks all - lots of useful suggestions.

Seems the one brick forge idea might be the cheapest way of concentrating the heat from a torch and would work for me. Though the auto ignition torches with a can of MAPP gas sounds like a next step up (possibly in conjunction with a one brick forge).

The induction heating idea is an interesting one; I've seen induction heaters but hadn't considered it for heat treatment.

 

[carpenteire2009]

+1 on the Rothenberger Superfire torch, I used one last week in conjunction with some small fire bricks to get some 6" nails up to temperature for forging. I was only making some rivets but it was perfect for this type of small work.

 

[John Hall]

These are very good…gives off more heat than a standard torch..
https://www.gasproducts.co.uk/bullf...aIIvogFaYQrGd9YTvHZRkx0cxT5bwUL0aAtsIEALw_wcB

 

[OldGreyDog]

These are very good…gives off more heat than a standard torch..
https://www.gasproducts.co.uk/bullf...aIIvogFaYQrGd9YTvHZRkx0cxT5bwUL0aAtsIEALw_wcB

I have one of these and they are indeed very good.

 

[carpenteire2009]

Another thumbs up for Bullfinch also, they make a great torch and you can buy additional torch burner heads that are interchangeable afterwards.

 

[Fergie 307]

If it's just for hardening small pieces like that a mapp torch should do you fine. I'd say it's worth investing in one of the rothenburger auto ignition torches - not only is it nice to not need a lighter or sparker but it seems to swirl the flame and get things very hot, very quickly. Handy if you ever do any restoration work as well for persuading stuck bolts to come loose.

Upvote here for the Rothenberger, excellent bit of kit. Bit more expensive but you get what you pay for.

 

[cerro]

I used a garden plant pot about 12" high drilled a hole in the side inserted a pipe I had a spare set of Dinghy bellows so connected the foot bellows/Pump by hose pipe and some charcoal in and it gets white hot. Didnt cost me a penny will post a photo when I get up to the workshop.

 

[cerro]

Photo, I dont think it will last long so looking for a lorry brake hub.

 

[sploo]

I cheaped out and bought a different brand to the Rothenburger torch, but it seems decent (metal body). I went for a can of the Rothenburger MAPP because apparently some of the alternatives aren't as good.

I'll see how it performs next time I need to heat treat something, but I will also try to find a firebrick to make a one brick forge.

 

[MorrisWoodman12]

@sploo So where did you cheap out?
Martin

 

[sploo]

It was this (SEAAN MAPP Propane Torch Multi Purpose Trigger Start Propane Torch with 3 Nozzles/Tips, Gas cylinders not Included : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools) torch for £36 rather than one of the more expensive Rothenberger torches.