Best way of cutting M&T'S?

[W0ody]

Which is also the fastest way?

ive never cut them before, i guess you can cut em of a table saw (seen norm do it effortlessly) and a mortiser?

if so is there any guides floatin around?

cheers

 

[OPJ]

A dedicated morticer would be the way to go for cutting mortices, unless you want to make yourself a router jig.

Tenons can be cut in any number of ways... Bandsaw, router table, router... If you want to do them on the table saw then you really should also make yourself some kind of jig for secure work-holding and also too keep you hands clear of the blade! Steve Maskery did a very good one in British Woodworking recently.

 

[woodbloke]

Tenons can be cut in any number of ways... Bandsaw, router table, router...

...it's even been known to cut them by hand, using just a tenon saw (after having marked them out) - Rob

 

[Grinding One]

Which is also the fastest way?

ive never cut them before, i guess you can cut em of a table saw (seen norm do it effortlessly) and a mortiser?

if so is there any guides floatin around?

cheers

Leigh FMT jig ,is the fastest way...its pricey but fast. If you don`t have the money,a hand saw does work with a chisel.

 

[Harbo]

I used my bandsaw (with very thin meat & fish blade) for the tenons and my Woodrat ( using spiral up cutter) for the mortices on this recently completed project:

Small mortises squared off with my cheapo Japanese chisels and hammer - the bigger ones I rounded off the tenon with my Japanese saw rasp (for speed). The timber is oak so the chisels were honed accordingly - they survived the bashing quite well.

Rod

 

[wizer]

Rod, do you find that spiral up cutters want to pull the bit out of the collet? This has happened to me on a few occasions, I find I have to tighten it as hard as I can and take minuscule passes for it to remain in place and not shoot through the timber.

 

[woodbloke]

I used my bandsaw (with very thin meat & fish blade) for the tenons and my Woodrat ( using spiral up cutter) for the mortices on this recently completed project:

Small mortises squared off with my cheapo Japanese chisels and hammer - the bigger ones I rounded off the tenon with my Japanese saw rasp (for speed). The timber is oak so the chisels were honed accordingly - they survived the bashing quite well.

Rod

Rod - great stuff, that chair's turned out very well indeed. Cracking job...and not a straight line in it =D> - Rob

 

[Harbo]

WiZer - I use a DW 625 with my Rat - never had a problem with pull out and I have used 3 different sizes of cutter with two different sizes of collets.

Have you tried giving them a good clean - I have a Trend collet cleaning kit, which really consists of different sized brass "bottle" brushes?

Rod

 

[wizer]

I'll give it a try Rod, thanks

 

[ivan]

Yup, woodrat. Never had problem with spiral upcuts in either DW625 original collet chuck, one of those Jacobs (discontinued) click chucks, or the RC Eliminator (allen key locking) chuck. Maybe your collet is worn?

 

[W0ody]

Thanks for the replies guys

i was thinking of a woodrat, just looked at some vids on youtube

I used my bandsaw (with very thin meat & fish blade) for the tenons and my Woodrat ( using spiral up cutter) for the mortices on this recently completed project:



Small mortises squared off with my cheapo Japanese chisels and hammer - the bigger ones I rounded off the tenon with my Japanese saw rasp (for speed). The timber is oak so the chisels were honed accordingly - they survived the bashing quite well.

Rod

if the woodrats are all they are saying to be - how come you didnt cut the tenons on it too?

ive been lookin at the WR900 - £385.00
and this woodrat cuts so many different joints..

Leigh Jig is the same price probably more so i thought this one would be a better investment.

i take it you have to buy all the cutters for cutting all the various joints?
or do they come with it

regards

 

[Steve Maskery]

W0ody

£385 is a lot of money just to cut some M&T joints. Router and cutters on top. It all adds up.

There is no "best way". I use a number of different ways depending on the job. Small tenons can be cut on a router table quickly and safely with a little jig like the one in the How-To section on this site. I cut large tenons with a different jig an out-rigger foot for my Elu 1777 router. If I need angled tenons I cut them ehd-on like the Rat, again with a router. And more recently I've taken to cutting them on my tablesaw with something I've rather cockily called the Ultimate Tablesaw Tenon Jig, which Nick published in BW a couple of issues ago.

All the methods work well, none is suitable for every case, usually becasue of the size involved. I wouldn't cut small stub-tenons in the same way as I would cut the bottom rail of a front door, for example.

For mortices I have a hollow-chisel router, but I tend to use it only for the big stuff. For furniture I tend to use a mortice jig in the vice. It's quick, accurate and repeatable.

With the exception of my HC mortiser, all the other jigs cost me a fraction of what you are proposing. Now if money is no object, then great, but if youare just starting up, and I'm assuming that because you say this is your first attempt, then I would encourage you to save your money. Or rather spend it differently. There are lots of plans for jigs around, many are free, some you pay for. All are fun to build and rewarding to use when you realize that you've made something that does the job well and hasn't cost very much.

That's my 2p
Steve

 

[W0ody]

Hi steve

thanks for the reply, i understand what you saying it is alot of money. but then i also want to cut dovetails - and i haven't got a router table yet :shock:

i was hoping you could buy a jig for a table saw (like norm's) but i can't seem to find any....or any idea of making my own, plus i value my fingers :lol:

ideally though i don't want to spend that much on a jig..

people suggested a different ways of doing it
(a, bandsaw - don't have yet
(b, router table & router - i don't have yet..
(c, dovetail jig - :roll:
(d, chisels - i have - but no source of resharpening as yet

basically all i have is the minimum requirements of a workshop (only been doing it for a month or so)

surely the cost of that will be cheaper than the actual WR?

if i were gonna use it just for tenon's - a no no - but sooo many joints can be done (i'm just after any excuse to buy it aren't i :shock: )

 

[wizer]

I have been in this situation. Tho in your case, I would strongly advise you to spend that money on either a router table or bandsaw (or both). Surely these will be more worth to you than the woodrat. The woodrat is a learning curve all of it's own. Plus it has been said before that the WR is not the best way to do DT's. Personally I am researching M&T jigs after finally realising that paying all the money just to do one or two joints is a bit barmy. This thread may help you:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=23485

 

[Steve Maskery]

Right, now I have a better idea of where you are.

My advice would be:
1 Buy a really good 1/2" router. There are many recommendations on here - Triton DeWalt Festool Hitachi. Do a search for Router Recommendations and you'll get a surefire cure for insomnia. You don't have to skimp if you have a £300 budget! PM me if you want to know about Really Good Plans for a mortising jig

2 Email [email protected] and ask him for a back issue. I think it it is #5. You'll get plans for a Norm-type jig that is safer, MUCH easier to use and will give you excellent results. Right first time every time, to coin a phrase. Not just tenons either, but twin tenons, bridle joints, splines. Lots. You can buy the small amount of required hardware from Axminster, your local engineers' merchants, or, preferably, me.

You'll learn a lot, get great satisfaction and have bags of money left to buy other woody stuff! I promise.

S

 

[wizer]

Just came across this, might be of interest.

http://www.woodsmith.com/issues/173/vid ... table-saw/

 

[Grinding One]

Thanks for the replies guys

i was thinking of a woodrat, just looked at some vids on youtube

I used my bandsaw (with very thin meat & fish blade) for the tenons and my Woodrat ( using spiral up cutter) for the mortices on this recently completed project:



Small mortises squared off with my cheapo Japanese chisels and hammer - the bigger ones I rounded off the tenon with my Japanese saw rasp (for speed). The timber is oak so the chisels were honed accordingly - they survived the bashing quite well.

Rod

if the woodrats are all they are saying to be - how come you didnt cut the tenons on it too?

ive been lookin at the WR900 - £385.00
and this woodrat cuts so many different joints..

Leigh Jig is the same price probably more so i thought this one would be a better investment.

i take it you have to buy all the cutters for cutting all the various joints?
or do they come with it

regards

The Leigh Jig comes with cutter (1).But to make various sizes M&T you need to purchase the plastic insert pieces you need to cut the piece`s for both M&T that you need for the size you want..
The good thing about this jig is you can do compound miter joints & angle joints such as chairs legs on angle,both mortice and tendon...it`s pretty neat and fast,as fast as you can move it works that fast and repeatable.
It also comes in Imperiall and metric.

 

[Harbo]

WOody - I did not use my Rat to cut the tenons because it was much quicker on my bandsaw - all the tenons are on the ends of curved pieces which would have been messy to support under the Rat table. Not impossible but would have meant making a lot of different sloped wedges.
With them marked out I cut them by eye on the bandsaw - the very thin blade is very accurate.
Norm in his video made special jigs for them and cut them on a Table saw.

Rod

 

[W0ody]

Hi again

thanks for the replies.

WiZeR

I have been in this situation. Tho in your case, I would strongly advise you to spend that money on either a router table or bandsaw (or both). Surely these will be more worth to you than the woodrat. The woodrat is a learning curve all of it's own. Plus it has been said before that the WR is not the best way to do DT's. Personally I am researching M&T jigs after finally realising that paying all the money just to do one or two joints is a bit barmy. This thread may help you:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=23485

I totally understand what your saying, just looking at the woodrat is scary
I must admit whilst watchin the vids - i soon lost my bearings

i was thinking of getting the Axminster Plus SBW4300WL Bandsaw
(It's got a decent depth of cut & i would use it alot) - jet is more or less the same expect 300 quid more

and also Makita P-66226 Router Table for 150 quid.

and thanks for that link i have a better idea now.


Steve Maskery

Right, now I have a better idea of where you are.

My advice would be:
1 Buy a really good 1/2" router. There are many recommendations on here - Triton DeWalt Festool Hitachi. Do a search for Router Recommendations and you'll get a surefire cure for insomnia. You don't have to skimp if you have a £300 budget! PM me if you want to know about Really Good Plans for a mortising jig Smile

2 Email [email protected] and ask him for a back issue. I think it it is #5. You'll get plans for a Norm-type jig that is safer, MUCH easier to use and will give you excellent results. Right first time every time, to coin a phrase. Not just tenons either, but twin tenons, bridle joints, splines. Lots. You can buy the small amount of required hardware from Axminster, your local engineers' merchants, or, preferably, me.

You'll learn a lot, get great satisfaction and have bags of money left to buy other woody stuff! I promise.

steve i have decided to take your advise on board and not bother with the woodrat.
before we go any further whats the difference between a 1/2" & 1/4"?

and yeah them plans would really help me out thanks, i'll PM you now mate.


Harbo

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:25 am Post subject:
WOody - I did not use my Rat to cut the tenons because it was much quicker on my bandsaw - all the tenons are on the ends of curved pieces which would have been messy to support under the Rat table. Not impossible but would have meant making a lot of different sloped wedges.
With them marked out I cut them by eye on the bandsaw - the very thin blade is very accurate.
Norm in his video made special jigs for them and cut them on a Table saw.

Rod

i see i never thought like that, the bench is very nice , well done

 

[OPJ]

Woody, a 1/4" router will only be able to take cutters with a 1/4" shank. It will also be lighter in weight, which makes it ideal for any intricate 'carving' jobs, for example.

If you're looking to do a lot of rebating, grooving and moulding then you'll really need a 1/2" router, which can also be fitted with 1/4" and 8mm collets. This router will be bigger and heavier but will be able to take larger diameter cutters.