Best Dust/Chip extractors for small workshop - Advice Please

[beech1948]

The DX5000 if it has twin motors would be fine and certainly cope with your 12x20ft shop.

The 3" pipe is restricting the performance severely I would think and an upgrade to a mi minimum 4" rigid plastic pipe would help.

I have in the past used 110mm underground sewage pipe from Screwfix and it has been excellent with no problems. Price seems to be very good as well. Availability of slow bends, Y junctions and slow T junctions is within the range of options.

Al

PS Rigid pipe is much preferable to flexible pipe as there is little loss of suction in rigid pipe. Flexible can be used for the last 2 or 3 feet.

 

[PAC1]

Gareth if you are building at the moment I would definitely plan a little lean too for your extraction. I bought the Jet and then cannibalised it so that I could put the fan straight on the end of my ductwork and suspended it from the roof of my lean too. I have been very pleased with the performance and more important how clean the air is in the Workshop. I kept my high pressure unit and will use it on my bandsaw and mitresaw.
The downside is that all your warm air goes up the chute literally and you have to remember to check the bag regularly. One year on it is definitely worth it for the clean air.

 

[cutting42]

The DX5000 if it has twin motors would be fine and certainly cope with your 12x20ft shop.

The 3" pipe is restricting the performance severely I would think and an upgrade to a mi minimum 4" rigid plastic pipe would help.

I have in the past used 110mm underground sewage pipe from Screwfix and it has been excellent with no problems. Price seems to be very good as well. Availability of slow bends, Y junctions and slow T junctions is within the range of options.

Al

PS Rigid pipe is much preferable to flexible pipe as there is little loss of suction in rigid pipe. Flexible can be used for the last 2 or 3 feet.

As it is a high-pressure system it drives the 3" pipes OK but even with 4" it does not have the airspeed to work very well with my PT and table saw hence wanting to sell the DX5000 (should get a reasonable value even 2nd hand) and put the money towards a proper LPHV system.

 

[Wizard9999]

I have in the past used 110mm underground sewage pipe from Screwfix and it has been excellent with no problems. Price seems to be very good as well. Availability of slow bends, Y junctions and slow T junctions is within the range of options.

I have been costing up ducting and 110mm soil pipe was also suggested. I did a price comparison between Tool Station soil pipe and 125mm ducting from Duct Store. Duct Store came out as less. The actual lengths of pipe are much less for soil pipe, it the bends, Ys and Ts are actually a lot more. The precise comparison will of course vary with exactly what configuration you are after, but don't just assume soil pipe will be cheaper. Plus of course you get the extra 15mm of cross section.

Terry.

 

[Wizard9999]

I have found a company in Newbury and one in Amesbury who produce Torit style filters that can be stacked under the DC outlet and be terminsted in a small box for any remaining small size dust. These filters are easy to find in the US but damned hard here in the UK and also are quite a bit more expensive than the US.

Any chance you can share the names of the companies?

Thanks,
Terry.

 

[PAC1]

Terry did you include the price of brackets in your comparison? They were expensive at Ductstore, but they are substantial. I also had my one bend made as a slow bend and as clip on rather than push fit spiral. The slow bend maintains the flow better and the clip on creates an access point should you need to get in.
I went with Ductstore and am happy with their kit.

 

[mr.alan.]

why not an used machine? I picked up record power cx2600 off fleabay a few months ago for £50. cracking machine, £170 when new.

Believe me I have been on Ebay, Gumtree, Preloved - yep If I can get one at a good price- and obviously not to far so I can pick up - I will.

And as some has said- a torch is a great way of determining what dust is left in the air - ( and god do I remember seeing that dust cloud when the sun shined through!)

I guess I am looking for the "silver bullet" - I find looking for the right extraction to suit my needs is really tough - and the knowledge you guys have given here is great, and appreciated. I am not in a position to have a none portable and appreciate that it would be much better- but it would be not practicable because of space issues in my workshop.
I will look at all the recommendations and do some calling - as some have said they have spoken to manufactures who have been very helpful. One thing I do now know- I will definitely have to increase my budget. :shock:

 

[Wizard9999]

Terry did you include the price of brackets in your comparison? They were expensive at Ductstore, but they are substantial. I also had my one bend made as a slow bend and as clip on rather than push fit spiral. The slow bend maintains the flow better and the clip on creates an access point should you need to get in.
I went with Ductstore and am happy with their kit.

To be honest I plan to make my own brackets so there would be no cost difference. My plan is to use a pair of 45 degree bends with a short straight piece between them rather than 90 degree bends where I have to turn corners, is that equivalent to a slow bend? The idea of having an access point is a very good one which I had not thought about at all and I will definitely look into that, so thanks .

Terry.

 

[Wizard9999]

I have found a company in Newbury and one in Amesbury who produce Torit style filters that can be stacked under the DC outlet and be terminsted in a small box for any remaining small size dust. These filters are easy to find in the US but damned hard here in the UK and also are quite a bit more expensive than the US.

Any chance you can share the names of the companies?

Thanks,
Terry.

If you could share any info you have on suppliers it would be much appreciated, at every turn this seems to become ever more difficult. I made a further search on the Internet and contacted one of the cartridge filter manufacturers, but their products would simply not be suitable. It was explained to me that as their cartridges are usually slotted into an enclosed machine the dust is actually extracted on the outside of the cartridge, not the inside as I would want.

I ideally am getting jolly jealous of our cousins over the pond who simply seem to get anything they need from Wynn Enviromental .

Terry.

 

[beech1948]

Wizard999,

I will share the info when I have anything to report. Current status is that I have called both compabnies and now await a returned call from a tech specialist.

I'm currently looking for a Wynne distributor in the EU or UK.

I'm starting to get very frustrated with Uk suppliers as several items I have been trying to source are proving difficult. eg a 16" metal impeller. Its just the cost of transport from the US which prevents me ordering there as it just about doubles the price of the unit.

 

[Wizard9999]

Wizard999,

I will share the info when I have anything to report. Current status is that I have called both compabnies and now await a returned call from a tech specialist.

I'm currently looking for a Wynne distributor in the EU or UK.

I'm starting to get very frustrated with Uk suppliers as several items I have been trying to source are proving difficult. eg a 16" metal impeller. Its just the cost of transport from the US which prevents me ordering there as it just about doubles the price of the unit.

Ah, ok thanks, I assumed you were further into the process than you actually are. I was only just on the Wynn Environmental site earlier wondering what it would cost to have their products shipped over, or indeed whether I could get away with a filter as hand luggage :lol: .

If your profile is up to date I see we are actually very close to each other. It seems delivery on these items is not cheap so if there is any success it may be worth making a single order and then I can pick up from you when I am passing.

Terry.

 

[mr.alan.]

And so the search goes on.... I think with all the information I have had- and what I actually want- I am going to have to go just with a "shop bought" unit. I have to way up the pros and cons as it were. While in the workshop - I reckon most of the time I will be producing "Dust and Chips" ( Cutting using the Panel Saw, Using the router, power sanders, and lathe - max of 1.5 hours a day. On the nicer days we have ( I know very rare) I will be doing any routing outside . Anyhow with that said - I am off this week to look in on Axminster tools ( Only in Warrington and I am based in Liverpool. So...watch this space and I will keep you all updated- Once again - thanks for all your advice and help.

 

[MikeJhn]

In the long run there is no getting away from the fact you need two machines, one LPHV chip extractor and one HPLV dust extractor for hand held dust makers anything that says it does both is a compromise, I don't like compromising my health, my own system consist of a 2000m3/hr chip extractor with a cartridge filter (Axminster FM300BC: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ho ... eal-717658 a Neumatic twin motor (2400 Watt) cyclonic vacuum fitted with three filters the first being a HEPA bag and a Trend power hood, the torch test in the man cave shows very little particles in the air no matter what I have been planing, sawing or routing, no matter what it is you use, don't forget that they have to be emptied and that can increase your exposure a great deal.

Mike

 

[Wizard9999]

Please don't take this the wrong way, it is genuine enquiry, not challenge, but having read my post I though it may come across the wrong way so, thought I best make this clearing front.

... own system consist of a 2000m3/hr chip extractor with a cartridge filter (Axminster FM300BC: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ho ... eal-717658 a Neumatic twin motor (2400 Watt) cyclonic vacuum fitted with three filters the first being a HEPA bag and a Trend power hood...
Mike

Have you ever managed to get specific figures from Axminster regarding the performance of the canister? Having the HEPA bag on the Neumatic you clearly take this seriously, but what percentage of small particles is the Axminster canister retaining? I find it very annoying that proper figures are not provided (not just by Axminster, but by many manufacturers).

...the torch test in the man cave shows very little particles in the air no matter what I have been planing, sawing or routing, no matter what it is you use, don't forget that they have to be emptied and that can increase your exposure a great deal.

I guess the point is that it doesn't matter how good the filtering if the dust is not captured at source. But my question is how useful the 'torch test' actually is. According to the Nilfisk website the human eye is only capable of seeing particles down to 50 microns, so even with a torch presumably the sorts of particles people are rightly concerned about here would remain invisible. Am I missing something about how the torch test works?

Terry.

 

[PAC1]

The torch test is a cheap guide but of some value. For instance tobacco smoke is said to be 0.02 to 1 micron but you can see it in a cloud. Same with wood dust if there was only one spec in the room you would not see it but if the room is full of fine particles the light bounces of the particles.

I also would like to see some real test data from the Axminster machine as the motor is similar size to the Jet, but 2000m3/hr is nearly twice the Jet. Yet the Jet has a larger duct size and is tested with the 30 micron filter.

 

[MikeJhn]

Terry

I can only go by the published figures, the canister filter is supposed to retain up too 1 micron, but as with all these things as the paper filter medium gets more dust in it the filtering becomes better, this is measurable as the suction goes down, its a compromise of when you turn the handle to displace the dust over keeping the finer filtering, pleated paper filters have a much larger cross sectional area than bag filters, so they take longer to get blocked, but conversely filter much finer particles in the first instance, I have proved this to myself with the filtering to model turbine engines, they have a very low tolerance to lack of fuel flow.

The torch test is the only way us mortals can re-assure ourselves that we are doing the best for our lungs, examining the filters in the Trend power hood give a very good indication of what particles are in the air and being filtered out, the real test is how much my OH complains about the dust coming through the door and on my clothes when putting them in the washing machine, she is a far better judge of these things than any sophisticated equipment, I mean she told me so, therefore it must be true. LOL

Mike

 

[MikeJhn]

PAC

If you are comparing to the Jet Vortex, the only observation I have is the corrugated tube connection between the motor and canister, the corrugations must have an effect on the air flow, even if its only turbulence, the comparison between the two is not quite valid as they possible use different motor windings and impeller units, the only way we will ever come to a conclusion on this is to have both units side by side and measure the suction with a manometer and the dust escaping the filter with a particle analyser, this would have to be in a very controlled environment using exactly the same waste through both machines, in essence not a very practical proposition, unless someone here has access to a University lab who may take this on as an academic exercise, perhaps a University student would take this on as a thesis or publish a paper.

Mike

 

[PAC1]

Mike I agree there are differences, I just did not expect such a large difference.

Terry, Even the HSE recommend the light test can be done with a torch to get an indication http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/mdhs/pdfs/mdhs82-2.pdf

 

[MikeJhn]

PAC

The problem is the number of variables that effect the performance, RPM, blade pitch and or diameter even the direction of rotation in the Northern or Southern hemisphere, I think that was a joke, but then again...........

Another thought, how about the effects of atmospheric pressure. LOL

Mike

 

[Wizard9999]

Thanks PAC, the smoke analogy re clouds makes perfect sense, so you would see if there was a reasonable amount of very small particles but not each individual particle.

Terry.