Bench - vice vs length!!!

[SVB]

Folks,

I am making a new bench for my w/s and have a bit of a dilemma.

I only have 1.5m gap for the completed bench. I mostly do smaller scale stuff, boxes etc.

I would like to fit a tail vice but by the time I have allowed space to open it I end up with quite a short bench, even if I limit the travel.

Therefore I am thinking of building the bench the full 1.5m and buying a veritas 'Wonder Pup' in leiu of the tail vice (APTC cat. piccy below).

Is this a clever compromise or a terrible mistake???

As ever, thoughts and comments gratefully received before I start cutting timber!

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Simon,

I bought a couple of these thinking they'd take the place of a tail vice. Personally they don't do it for me. I'm always screwing or unscrewing them from one extreme to the other. I believe others like them much more. Don't get me wrong, they do the job, just not very conveniently.

Not quite sure how you'll fit in a tail vice into that length though. My bench used to be stuck right up to the walls. Even if I had a tail vice I'd have never been able to get a good planing stroke in the remaining space.

Cheers,

Dave

 

[DaveL]

Simon,

I have a tail vice and I have wonder pups and dogs.
They are both very useful and I think with care the pups could be used for most bench top requirements. The thing you lose is holding a board vertically, but if you have a face vice that should not be a problem.

 

[RogerS]

Simon

Curious to know what you expect to use a tail vice for especially as you're planning to do smaller items.

If it's to act as a stop when planing then have you considered one of those metal dogs that unscrew out of the bench...http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-Morticed-Bench-Stop-21255.htm

 

[SVB]

Hi Roger,

I was planning to use the tail vice to secure a board / item against a stop or dog so it did not move when working.

Have I missed the point? :?

Simon

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Simon,

The best way to achieve what you want is to fit a wagon vice. There's a very expensive version that Chris Schwarz fitted to his bench, manufactured by Benchcrafted of the USA (follow the link in the article and you can see it in operation) http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/bl ... +Vise.aspx

To do it at a more reasonable cost, just use a normal Record-style tail vice screw - the only snag with that option is that the vice operates back-to-front (ie you have to turn it anti-clockwise to do it up) but that's not too much of a problem. If you have access to 'The Workbench Book' by Scott Landis, there's a version of it using the Record-style screw in there.

I use the Veritas Wonder Pups but they don't really take the place of a tail vice.

Hope this helps.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[RogerS]

....

Have I missed the point? :?

Simon

Not at all but the morticed bench stop allows you to do just that as it stops the work sliding along the bench as you plane it.

 

[Boz62]

Simon,

Chris Schwarz seems very keen on the Wonder Dog/Pup in his Workbench book. In the chapter on workholding he regularly lists the WD as an alternative compromise method to a tail vice. I would give the WD a go - you have little to lose. If you leave an overhang at the tail end of the bench there is always the option of modifying it, if you later decide you really do need a tail vice of some form (and can find the space).

I'll be interested how you proceed as I am about 3 months behind you on the same journey, with the same compromises

Good luck,
Boz

 

[woodbloke]

Simon


If it's to act as a stop when planing then have you considered one of those metal dogs that unscrew out of the bench...http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-Morticed-Bench-Stop-21255.htm

I had one of these things years ago and I don't recommend them one little bit. The screw is awkward to undo and if you catch your plane on the forward stroke :evil: - Rob

 

[Steve Maskery]

I agree that the metal stops are risky. My dad had one fitted to his and I was in bad books more than once for hitting it.

A better option, it seems to me (although I've never actually tried it) is to fit a stop to the left-hand end of the bench, run with a vertical keyway and a nice beefy Bristol lever. Park it down when you don't need it and lock it up in position when you do. I've seen one recently, but I can't remember where. Probably Chris Schwarz or Bob Lang.

For a quick and easy version, although not quite so robust, is to take a piece of MDF, say 8" square, and fix a batten to one edge. Hold the batten in the vice so that the MDF sits on the bench. You can then use that as a planing stop, and you do lose some length capacity on your bench. It's not adjustable for thickness, of course, but it will do for occasional use.

I do like the wagon vice though, very nice.
S

 

[Dave S]

Hi Simon,

The best way to achieve what you want is to fit a wagon vice. There's a very expensive version that Chris Schwarz fitted to his bench, manufactured by Benchcrafted of the USA (follow the link in the article and you can see it in operation) http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/bl ... +Vise.aspx

To do it at a more reasonable cost, just use a normal Record-style tail vice screw - the only snag with that option is that the vice operates back-to-front (ie you have to turn it anti-clockwise to do it up) but that's not too much of a problem. If you have access to 'The Workbench Book' by Scott Landis, there's a version of it using the Record-style screw in there.

I use the Veritas Wonder Pups but they don't really take the place of a tail vice.

Hope this helps.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Andy King built a bench with a similar vice a few years ago - I'll see if I can dig out the GW issue number this evening.

Dave

 

[Dave S]

Andy King built a bench with a similar vice a few years ago - I'll see if I can dig out the GW issue number this evening.
Dave

January 2000, Issue 91, if anyone is interested.

Dave

 

[OLD]

If the 1.5m bench was built sturdy but not to heavy you could pull it into a bigger space then you can use any fixing method and stand were you need to.

 

[Night Train]

I don't have a tail vice even though I have the space for it.

If I need to hold a board tight to plane I cramp a thin board to one end of the bench, push my work up to it and secure with a thin board at the other end of the bench. Before I fully cramp up the second board I give it a couple of taps with a mallet to tighten it against the work and then nip up the cramps. Using board lets me keep the cramps well clear of the work and the plane.

Interestingly the joiners at college do something similar except that they don't use cramps, they just screw board and battens to the bench to suit each job!

For planing stick shaped work I cramp the work end to end in a small sash cramp and then put the sash cramp in the bench vice.

 

[OPJ]

Simon, if you're planning to have two parallel rows of dog holes on top, you could do something similar to what Night Train has suggested...

Instead of cramping or screwing the MDF/ply stops in place, glue a couple of dowels in place that correspond with the dog holes. At the other end, you could cut a large pair of folding wedges to tighten it up against the end stop. :wink:

I might try something like this when I make my own bench (hoping to buy the timber within the next week! ), even though I plan on having an end vice.

If you go for the dogs, I reckon you'd be better off with the Wonder Dogs rather than the Pups, as they are bigger and presumably stronger.

 

[OPJ]

Another thought on vice positioning...

Are you right-handed? While it's "traditional" to have the front vice towards the left of the bench, I'm considering placing mine nearer the other end. Think how much easier it would be to cross-cut or shoot the ends of long boards. :wink:

When you are planing a face on the bench top, which end of the bench are you likely to be using? If it's the left then, surely you also want to keep that clear so that you're not hitting your front vice all the time?

Just a couple of things to think about.

 

[Night Train]

Simon, if you're planning to have two parallel rows of dog holes on top, you could do something similar to what Night Train has suggested...

Instead of cramping or screwing the MDF/ply stops in place, glue a couple of dowels in place that correspond with the dog holes. At the other end, you could cut a large pair of folding wedges to tighten it up against the end stop. :wink:

I only left out the dog holes because I didn't want holes in my bench but otherwise same deal.

 

[Night Train]

When you are planing a face on the bench top, which end of the bench are you likely to be using? If it's the left then, surely you also want to keep that clear so that you're not hitting your front vice all the time?

How do you 'hit' the front vice?
Mine is level with the top of the bench.

I made my own vice using a vice screw set from Axminster and it is flat topped and cramps against the edge of the bench, 70mm of beech. I also have a dog further to the right of the bench front that is set at the same height as the bars in the vice to support long boards.

For long high boards I rest it on the pulled out tool drawers and grip in the vice for planing edges.

 

[OPJ]

Sorry, what I meant was that you would personally hit the a left-hand front vice with some part of your body. That's what I'm thinking, anyway. Either that or, if it's a fairly large one, you'll be reaching over it awkwardly.

I do agree that the top of your vice jaws should be flush with your bench top.

 

[Night Train]

Ahhh, see what you mean.

My vice is quite close to the left hand corner and I usually stop walking with the plane when I get that far and finish off with a push.
I tend to walk with the plane on long or wide cuts as my right elbow locks up sometimes under load and stops me pushing easily.