Bench Grinder for under £100

[J_SAMa]

I've never even touched a bench grinder so I'm going to have a lot of questions... I really want to cover all my bases so if I missed anything important, feel free to point out.
Since I'm going to use it for grinding hand tools I thought I would post it here rather than in Buying Advice.

My local retailers carry some "Record Power" models (RSBG8 and 6) and a Creusen model (can't remember which one). Anyone here have/tried them? I'm trying to avoid buying it from abroad due to postage fees.
Pardon me if this sounds stupid, but do I have to have a "tool rest" or whatever jig to grind a chisel/plane blade?

Then about the width of the stone, can I use ANY width of stone as long as it fits within the housing? I.e. can I replace a 40 mm wheel with say a 20 mm wheel?

Lastly, can I grind those old, bevel up, tanged spokeshave blades on a grinder?

And please, feel free to suggest alternatives to a bench grinder, such as belt sanders or low-speed grinders.

Thanks,
Sam

 

[J_SAMa]

"Record Power" is not related to THE Record company that we know is it?

 

[RogerP]

"Record Power" is not related to THE Record company that we know is it?

Yes and no. It's a bit complicated .....

William Ridgway Tools merged first of all with Record Tools in 1974 to form Record Ridgway Tools Ltd. Record were another Sheffield company who were renowned for the quality of their vices and industrial clamps. Following the merger Record Ridgway Tools Ltd was made up of 14 UK Companies with 5 overseas companies. A later merger with a woodwork tools company called Marple (which was part-owned by Record and Ridgeway respectively before their original merger) led to the company becoming known as Record Marples Tools. Record Marples was taken over by the Swedish hardware manafacturer AB Bahco in 1982. Despite a management buyout leading to the company reverting to British ownership in 1985 the company struggled financially and following administration was acquired by U.S. based Irwin Tools in 1998 who have since moved production to China in recent years.

I know the name Record Power dates back over 20 years as I have a lathe in that name bought in 1991. But it is not in the castings which only has "Record" - the "Power" bit is only on a stick on label. Not sure where that fits in with the above.

 

[carpenteire2009]

I doubt you'll be able to pick up a new Creusen grinder for €100, but I could be wrong. In that price bracket you will find that most grinders will be of similar spec and build quality, probably only 200- 250 watt, all produced in China with fairly basic grinding wheels and tool rests. I have 2 grinders, one a second hand Aldi/ Lidl machine fitted with standard carborundum wheels which I use for general rough grinding of metal but not for edge sharpening. The "tool" rests are basic but more than good enough for the tasks I require.

I have a better Scantool grinder (still China-made) which came with cheap wheels; I replaced with cooler cutting white wheels and I also fitted an aftermarket tool rest by Axminster. These improve the performance and functionality no end, allowing me to use this grinder for some edge sharpening, but still taking care to avoid over-heating of steel. When replacing wheels on these cheaper grinders (which have pressed steel collars as opposed to machined steel on top-end models) you will need to balance the wheels and true up the cutting face to ensure smooth operation. Invest in some method of trueing up the wheel, I just use a cheap "devil" stick of carborundum, works fine for cleaning up the wheel too. I use pieces of card shimstock under the wheel collars to balance the wheels when setting up, it takes trial and error to get this done right but once done you will have better results from the grinder.

I have no experience with slow speed grinders, but I did manage to pick up a second hand Tormek (the hobby version) some years ago and would drag that out for some tasks.

In a nutshell- all low end/ budget grinders are the same but spend some money on decent cooler cutting wheels and an aftermarket tool rest or two. You might get lucky and pick up a decent grinder for cheap secondhand and use the money saved to upgrade your wheels, rests etc.

 

[Spindle]

Hi

I use a Record Power RSBG8 to profile my tools prior to going to a Tormek for final sharpening, I've owned it for several years and not had a problem with it. I went for the 8" grinder as the wheel diameter is closer to that of the Tormek.

I've also got the RSBG6 which I've only had for about six months but again its been fine - if you intend to only use a grinder to sharpen your tools then I'd go for the saving the RSBG6 offers.

In both cases I prefer the wider white wheels, which incidentally cannot be swapped from one side to the other due to mandrel length on the RSBG8, (not sure about the 6" but I could check if needed).

Regards Mick

 

[AndyT]

Re tanged spokeshave irons: I don't think you will get anywhere trying to use a bench grinder on these. Because there is a protective metal case around the stone, you cannot work close enough to the projecting tangs. You would only be grinding a few cm in the middle.

This could be different if you find an old hand cranked grinder secondhand. They can have a 'bare' wheel as the risk of fracture is so much less.

That said, I can't imagine why you would need a wheel for that job. You just need a narrow oilstone or slipstone. If you have a nick in the edge, use a coarse stone and a little more time.

 

[Spindle]

Hi

Both Record Power grinders have the wheel guards cut back sufficiently to allow a spoke shave blade to be ground, but as Andy says, its going to be easier and more controllable to use a stone.

Regards Mick

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Slightly off tack, but the balancing of wheels is important. I have a cheap one with a wet wheel that was unusable till balanced and the devil just "rode" the wheel until I rigged up something on the bench that I could clamp the devil stone to. I clamped the devil to just contact the wheel and left it a couple of minutes till the noise stopped, then repeated the process till the wheel was actually round. It works a dream now.
The effect on a fast wheel isn't so noticeable but it's still there - it's better to take your time and touch the wheel firmly but lightly.

 

[Fromey]

I have a chepo Axminster grinder also with a devil wheel (you get what you pay for) and so need to true it up. Is there a site with more detailed instructions, perhaps a Youtibe video, that anyone knows of?

 

[AndyT]

I have a chepo Axminster grinder also with a devil wheel (you get what you pay for) and so need to true it up. Is there a site with more detailed instructions, perhaps a Youtibe video, that anyone knows of?

I must get round to doing mine!

MrPete222 aka Tubalcain is a retired school instructor from Illinois who certainly seems to know his stuff around metalwork. This is his take on stone dressing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RagmMb731Sk

 

[J_SAMa]

That said, I can't imagine why you would need a wheel for that job. You just need a narrow oilstone or slipstone. If you have a nick in the edge, use a coarse stone and a little more time.

Laziness is human nature... No really, I'm through with grinding by hand which is why I am investing in a bench grinder.
I've got a spokeshave blade with a 1 mm by 1.5 mm nick in it... Imagine that!
Sam

 

[J_SAMa]

Hi

I use a Record Power RSBG8 to profile my tools prior to going to a Tormek for final sharpening, I've owned it for several years and not had a problem with it. I went for the 8" grinder as the wheel diameter is closer to that of the Tormek.

I've also got the RSBG6 which I've only had for about six months but again its been fine - if you intend to only use a grinder to sharpen your tools then I'd go for the saving the RSBG6 offers.

In both cases I prefer the wider white wheels, which incidentally cannot be swapped from one side to the other due to mandrel length on the RSBG8, (not sure about the 6" but I could check if needed).

Regards Mick

"Not had a problem with it" as in the wheel is not tricky to install like the cheaper ones described by others? It's hard to imagine something in this price range being perfect.

The RSBG6 only me 20 euros so... :roll: The theory is that a smaller diameter gives a "weaker" edge. How much difference does it make in practice?

I plan on going to 250-grit diamond stone and then 1200-grit right off of the grinder. What kind of wheels will I need?

Do you use the RSBG's with aftermarket tool rests? If yes which one? The original "rest" (which isn't much more than a steel bracket, judging by the pictures) looks flimsy

Sam

 

[J_SAMa]

I doubt you'll be able to pick up a new Creusen grinder for €100, but I could be wrong. In that price bracket you will find that most grinders will be of similar spec and build quality, probably only 200- 250 watt, all produced in China with fairly basic grinding wheels and tool rests. I have 2 grinders, one a second hand Aldi/ Lidl machine fitted with standard carborundum wheels which I use for general rough grinding of metal but not for edge sharpening. The "tool" rests are basic but more than good enough for the tasks I require.

I have a better Scantool grinder (still China-made) which came with cheap wheels; I replaced with cooler cutting white wheels and I also fitted an aftermarket tool rest by Axminster. These improve the performance and functionality no end, allowing me to use this grinder for some edge sharpening, but still taking care to avoid over-heating of steel. When replacing wheels on these cheaper grinders (which have pressed steel collars as opposed to machined steel on top-end models) you will need to balance the wheels and true up the cutting face to ensure smooth operation. Invest in some method of trueing up the wheel, I just use a cheap "devil" stick of carborundum, works fine for cleaning up the wheel too. I use pieces of card shimstock under the wheel collars to balance the wheels when setting up, it takes trial and error to get this done right but once done you will have better results from the grinder.

I have no experience with slow speed grinders, but I did manage to pick up a second hand Tormek (the hobby version) some years ago and would drag that out for some tasks.

In a nutshell- all low end/ budget grinders are the same but spend some money on decent cooler cutting wheels and an aftermarket tool rest or two. You might get lucky and pick up a decent grinder for cheap secondhand and use the money saved to upgrade your wheels, rests etc.

The Creusen model I had in mind was the DS 4150T. Can't find any UK retailers selling it ATM.
http://www.beeldhouwwinkel.nl/creusen-ds-4150t.html.
Supposedly Creusen is a reliable, high-end brand so I too was surprised to find this at such a low price. I plan on checking it out in the flesh so anything I should look out for (besides machined steel collars)?
I am still not quite sure what you mean by "balancing" the wheel...

About the tool rest, would you say the one pictured with the Creusen above is satisfactory?

Then about truing the stones, it seems that diamond sticks get good reviews. Have you tried one?

 

[Fromey]

Thanks Andy for that link. It reassures me that I'm doing it right. However, for my white wheel I'm seeing wobble in the lateral i.e., the wheel axis that is perpendicular to the axle shows wobble. I've looked at the axle and it looks fine, so I suspect it is the side "walls" of the stone that are not well formed. I'm assuming there is no way to true those up so am contemplating ditching the stone and buying a new one (though they cost just as much as the whole grinder cost me!)

 

[mikefab]

I have a Creusen grinder and use the Axminster aftermarket tool rest. The surface is quite a bit bigger (wider and deeper) than the supplied creusen one and it locks nice and securely. Havjng said that, I ordered both at the same time so never tried the built in one. I didn't regret my choice when I saw the supplied rests but you'd have nothing to lose by trying them out.

For what it's worth I go straight from the 100G white wheel to a 1000G stone for a secondary bevel. I use a diamond trueing tool (about £10 from Axi I think) to dress the wheel, and put a slight camber across it so that it only cuts in the centre, reducing the potential for overheating.

Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[Spindle]

Hi J_SAMa

I've not had any sort of problems with the RSBG8, the wheels run true and balanced, there is some minor vibration during run up and down but once at speed all is fine.
Record use turned wheel flanges on both of their grinders and not pressed steel ones.
Grinding with a view to 'fine' sharpening is not really my forte - I use the supplied white wheel which I believe is 80 grit which produces an edge perfectly acceptable for woodturning.
As far as a smaller wheel giving a weaker edge - I think that logic is flawed, and the fact that 6" grinders are far more prevalent than larger ones seems to support this.
All grinders will benefit from after market / home made tool rests, the type will depend on what items you intend to grind.

Regards Mick

 

[J_SAMa]

Hi J_SAMa

I've not had any sort of problems with the RSBG8, the wheels run true and balanced, there is some minor vibration during run up and down but once at speed all is fine.
Record use turned wheel flanges on both of their grinders and not pressed steel ones.
Grinding with a view to 'fine' sharpening is not really my forte - I use the supplied white wheel which I believe is 80 grit which produces an edge perfectly acceptable for woodturning.
As far as a smaller wheel giving a weaker edge - I think that logic is flawed, and the fact that 6" grinders are far more prevalent than larger ones seems to support this.
All grinders will benefit from after market / home made tool rests, the type will depend on what items you intend to grind.

Regards Mick

RSBG6 it is I guess. Easier to replace wheels in case I need to (no one here sells 8" wheels for some reason)...
The thing is, the tool rests I know of are all quite expensive. I might as well go for a Creusen 7000 for that price.
Sam

 

[Spindle]

The thing is, the tool rests I know of are all quite expensive. I might as well go for a Creusen 7000 for that price.

Hi

Whilst the rests on a Cruesen may be more substantial I doubt that they will cater for all of your requirements

What are you thinking of grinding? - Home made rests are easy to produce and will give you good results for very little outlay.

Regards Mick

 

[J_SAMa]

The usual chisels and plane irons, and some gouges if I manage to damage them badly. Maybe a few drill bits on occasion. I don't turn at all and don't plan on starting any time soon.
I noticed the RSBG6 has a 1/2" bore, and other models are almost all 15 mm. Would I have problems replacing the wheel?
Sam

 

[carpenteire2009]

I noticed the RSBG6 has a 1/2" bore, and other models are almost all 15 mm. Would I have problems replacing the wheel?
Sam

No problem with 1/2" bore, both my grinders are the same while replacement stones were 15mm- Axminster stock reducing bushes in a number of configurations to suit all variations. After fitting replacement wheels I had to balance them and true the perimeter. I found some info on the web to help me do this- basically shims of paper or card are used under the collars to reduce runout. Once that's done I used the "devil" stick to true up the outer edge. Not difficult but it takes time and patience, so once fitted I wouldn't be changing wheels until they're worn out. This is partly the reason I have two grinders- one for rough work and one for fine grinding as it's just not practicable to be switching wheels. I'd stick with a 6" wheeled grinder over 8"- there is a fair difference in price between the two and it will be easier to find more choice of abrasive types etc in 6" wheel I think.