Bench build question

[Benchwayze]

Julian,

I realise that being a Forum Newbie doesn't necessarily mean you are a novice woodworker.
I am also clear that you are no novice when it comes to disseminating posts, but in this instance you are reading into them, something which isn't there. So I'll expend a few more words so you can see exactly what I was getting at.

1) As for tins and bottles etc., yes, I read labels; but only to make sure I use the contents properly. That doesn't mean I believe manufacturers advertising claims,. (which is what I was getting at) and would never rely on glue to get me by, if I haven't done the job properly. I would sooner start again, or use pegged or draw-bored tenons which don't always need glue. Just like exterior mortice and tenon joints, which were once glued with gloss paint, before the introduction of modern, exterior grade adhesives.

2) I am pleased for you that your bench was a success. Good luck to you. To me it's unwise to buy poor timber for good class jobs. Fortunately, even though my woodwork is just for me these days, I can afford decent material.

3) I didn't criticise Sellers's bench period. I understand what he was trying to achieve. However, I was pointing out, he does give the impression that glue would hold the timber. so everything will be fine.

Julian, you are clearly as good at disseminating posts as you are at woodwork. I see there is nothing I can teach you. Hereafter, I shall hang onto your every word with the utmost attention. I hope, genuinely, that your bench doesn't split or warp, sometime down the line; but I am forgetting. It was made by a Master!

Enjoy your woodwork and Merry Christmas etc.
John.

 

[srp]

I've made a few benches, and used many more over the years, some workshop- made and others made by the likes of Sjoberg etc. These days I no longer see the need for a traditional joiners bench. Some aspects, such as the need for a vice and some system of stops for hand planing, remain necessary, but these days I use hand held power tools a lot more, which changes things a bit.
The frame and legs can be made from any reasonable, cheap softwood - wood doesn't move appreciably along the length dimension, so you can ignore the movement problem. I would reinforce the frame with some ply - one piece forming a brace lengthways (like the back of a kitchen cupboard unit), and a piece at each end. This will stop the structure racking. For the top I would use mdf. I see no reason to use solid wood at all. Mdf is flat, tough, cheap and easy to cut to size. Two pieces of 18mm, separated by battens (doubled or trebled where the vices are fitted), with holes drilled in various place for stops and dogs (along the lines of a Festool MFT but without the price tag). Finished off with another piece of mdf along the front edge as an apron if you want one. Why anyone would want to go to the trouble of making a solid top that will move, cup and distort every time the sun comes out is beyond me.

 

[DannyEssex]

srp

Silly question but what exactly do you mean by two pieces separated by battens?

 

[srp]

Say for a 1200 x 600 benchtop, cut two pieces of mdf to that size, along with several pieces of (say) 50 x 50 planed timber. The battens go between the two pieces of mdf, and its all screwed together.
Actually, two different thoughts here - either screw it all together without glue, so you can flip the mdf over when the top starts to look scruffy - you could do this four times. (but some people don't like screws in the bench top in case they cause problems with things like plane irons or circular saw blades). Or just glue, no screws, to avoid this in which case you only have two rather than four sides to use.
My own mdf bench top is still on the first side after three years, and is still as good as new.

 

[DannyEssex]

Say for a 1200 x 600 benchtop, cut two pieces of mdf to that size, along with several pieces of (say) 50 x 50 planed timber. The battens go between the two pieces of mdf, and its all screwed together.
Actually, two different thoughts here - either screw it all together without glue, so you can flip the mdf over when the top starts to look scruffy - you could do this four times. (but some people don't like screws in the bench top in case they cause problems with things like plane irons or circular saw blades). Or just glue, no screws, to avoid this in which case you only have two rather than four sides to use.
My own mdf bench top is still on the first side after three years, and is still as good as new.

Thanks for that, I didn't think I could do that, I was under the impression I should make sure the two meeting surfaces were flush together.
Thanks again and sorry for the dumb question lol

 

[rspsteve]

when are you going to start your bench Danny?

Wip pics would be good .

Steve

 

[DannyEssex]

when are you going to start your bench Danny?

Wip pics would be good .

Steve

Straight after Xmas Steve, This months pay has been snapped up by SWMBO, I hardly got a look in lol. Will do a WIP but im sure it wont be pretty :lol:

 

[Benchwayze]

Why anyone would want to go to the trouble of making a solid top that will move, cup and distort every time the sun comes out is beyond me.

The same could be said of any piece of furniture I suppose. We could call ourselves "MDFworkers" or "plyworkers"!

Reasons why some would go to all the trouble?

Because we are woodworkers, and we want a bench made entirely from wood. (Ego)
Because a good job will show how clever we are. (Ego)
Because wood is warm to the touch, and it looks good. (Ego)
And we can give it a good, long 'massage' with oil every now and then! (Can't classify this one, but it does wonders for the nerves!)

There are quite a few long-standing members who work from MDF benches, and some good benches too. So there is much sense in what you say srp, but I prefer a wooden benchtop. A piece of MDF would make a good 'shield' though for those messy or risky tasks.

Cheers

 

[DannyEssex]

Thanks for all the help, im terrible at making my mind up. On one hand I want a proper bench that will last me years and throw me into the build so I will learn more and test my limits

Then on the other hand I want to keep the cost down and throw something quickly together so I can use it sooner lol

 

[Zeddedhed]

For what it's worth....
When I built and kitted out my workshop I too desired a bench that resembled the dogs danglies. However I had neither the time nor the money to make or buy what I wanted, but I had to do something so that I could start making stuff and earning. I had two crappy old office shelving units made of MFC, so I turned them on their side and pushed them back to back. I then found three sheets of ratty OSB which I laid on top and screwed down, topped with a sheet of 18mm MDF with just two or three screws placed out of the way so that I was unlikely to run my track saw or planer over them.

Two years later I still have the same bench, which still has no vice or hold downs or other additions. I've successfully completed over £30k worth of work in the workshop and am only now thinking about turning a lump of mystery wood into a 'proper' bench.

To sum up, I would suggest that you do what you can with what you've got, adapt when required and start making stuff. You'll soon learn what is and what isn't important to you in a bench, and when you have the time/resources to make your dream bench you'll know exactly how you want it to take shape.

HTH

 

[Benchwayze]

For what it's worth....
When I built and kitted out my workshop I too desired a bench that resembled the dogs danglies. However I had neither the time nor the money to make or buy what I wanted, but I had to do something so that I could start making stuff and earning.

Good on you Zed.

As for me, I now have the money, (for my needs) and the 'spare' time. What I am running out of is years and mobility! But we get there.

best of Luck.

 

[carlb40]

Danny if you haven't started yet, and you have some spare change. I would highly recommend this book.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Workbenches-C ... 58aa5b4136
It goes through everything you need to know, inc timber selection. Well worth the money and should be read by anyone considering building their own bench.

 

[DannyEssex]

Danny if you haven't started yet, and you have some spare change. I would highly recommend this book.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Workbenches-C ... 58aa5b4136
It goes through everything you need to know, inc timber selection. Well worth the money and should be read by anyone considering building their own bench.

Thanks Carl, I will add that to my reading list, (I'm currently reading The Technique of Furniture Making By Ernest Joyce, which is quite interesting)

Regarding my bench build, I bottled it
I went to into Wickes, and the timber they had available was shocking really, I was expecting some warped boards but what they had was a joke! So I went to one of my local timber yards and they wasn't much help.

Soooo.....
I 'built' a bench from a dinning table I had, and mounted my Record 52 1/2 on it. It was okish, but I had a MDF kitchen worktop kicking about which was ideal so built another one, so now I have two :lol:

I would love a proper joiners bench one day and have seen some brilliant ones on here and the web, so have got a good idea what I would want, but will wait until I have found a good timber source as there are so many around me, I want to work out who's best :lol:
And another thing is, I'm a newbie so will wait till I can make a joint that doesn't look like a 5 year old done it lol

Looking forward to your WIP bench though mate (hammer)

 

[carlb40]

Well what you could do once you have decided on the style of bench is work out a rough list of timbers.

Most places won't know which timber will be best for a bench etc. So after working out what timbers are required, the local merchant should at least be able to help you sort straightish timbers out.
I used to frequent one independent builders merchant a few years back. There they had an old school indian joiner, if i went in and took sawn timber to him to be planed. He would joint then thickness to size for me.

Where as all the others would just bung it through the thicknesser.

As to the joints, if you get that book you will see some 'cheats' method for M&T joints.

 

[Tierney]

Danny,

You could try Horndon timber, who regularly deliver down to Southend. They have a website so you can see what stock they have.

Personally, I wouldn't buy wood from B&Q, Homebase, or Wickes, generally they only sell fast grown soft wood, that is really only good for carpentry not joinery/cabinet making. Most local timber merchants are not much better, you might get meranti or oak if you're lucky.

Cheers,

DT

 

[DannyEssex]

Thanks guys