Beismeyer/T square fence

[marcros]

Overwinter, I am planning to make a t square fence for my table saw, and probably extend the rails to allow for a router table extension.

The design that I have seen is serialised on youtube, and looks like the image here (he now offers them ready made) http://vsctools.wpengine.com/product-de ... saw-fence/

I will probably buy the cam lever, I dont fancy trying to make it.

Is there any reason why I should not use aluminium for the steel parts in the link. I would prefer to do this because I have no welding equipment or knowledge, and I should be able to braze aluminium, thus making the job a whole lot easier.

 

[Racers]

Braze aluminium! how the hell can you do that?

Pete

 

[mseries]

I was lead to believe from bicycle builders that joining aluminium using heat is quite difficult (easy to burn). I don't think it brazes well, if at all. MIG and TIG welding seem to be the way they do it. I have no experience of brazing/welding al and my experience of steel dates back to brazing at school - so what do I know.

I like the design though it's something I have been thinking about for my homemade router and saw tables

 

[Racers]

Well I Googled aluminium brazing and it seems you can but it looks messy and not very strong.
I can't help thinking it would be best in steel, you could cut all the pieces and a local fabricator should be able to weld it up for you.

Pete

 

[marcros]

well, Pete and mseries, I was also under the impression of "braze aluminium, on yer bike...", but Googling "brazing aluminium" came up with so many different sites that i doubted my belief/memory.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Quick-a ... nd-nonfer/ for instance

This site has a lot of info on it http://www.aluminiumrods.co.uk/index.ph ... &Itemid=69

I would appreciate any thoughts on it- I have a propane torch and a mapp cylinder, but no brazing experience either. it just looked a bit easier and cheaper than welding.

 

[marcros]

crossed post.

That is the other option, Pete. I could probably even prep and align/bolt them together so that the welder only needs to zip down the seams rather than clamp them. There are only a couple of welds on the fence, and maybe a couple on the extension, depending on how I do it. The rails are drilled and tapped IIRC.

 

[mseries]

it's looks doable doesn't it.

 

[marcros]

it actually does. Slightly concerned about strength, given that Pete has mentioned it, but it isnt under that much loading is it?

 

[Racers]

But its a long lever, so it needs to be strong.
Most old table saws have massive fences, there must be a reason for overbuilding them.

Pete

 

[Steve Maskery]

Save yourself a lot of grief and make one from off-the-shelf standard steel section, a toggle clamp and a few nuts and bolts. No welding, rock solid, adjustable for square in every axis and generally excellent.
£20 for the steel and £30 for the toggle clamp. And £19.99 for the DVD!
S

 

[AES]

@Marcos:

I don't know anything at all about that fence, nor about table saws, but I do know something about "welding" (or "brazing") aluminium.

The link given above is one of several products on the market, some of which I have used personally. It DOES work BUT it's not as easy as it looks and you do need a bit of practice before you do the "real" job nicely. But with practice you can produce a pretty strong joint and not long ago I was trying to break up an earlier test piece and had a helluva job getting the 2 pieces apart (using mechanical force, no heat). And I've even seen a bloke repairing a motorcycle front brake lever and running it on the road!!! So the stuff does work, and the only problems (apart from needing to practice) is that some joints just don't seem to work out as well as some others (apparently the same) - plus the cost of the rods - not particularly cheap.

If the lever on that fence needs to apply a goodly force (like the motorbike brake lever) and assuming you don't want to be doing a lot of ali welding/brazing in the future, my own recommendation/s would be:

AA) Prepare the joint mechanically yourself (tight fits, clean) then take it to a local welding shop with TIG - for a one off it should only cost you a few quid, OR:

BB) Forget about aluminium altogether and do as Steve Maskery has suggested.

In short if you're prepared to do some practicising, want to learn to be able to do something like that again for the future, and want spend some time and money, by all means try those ali rods because (in the end) you WILL be able to produce good joints.

If not, just as per SM suggested.

Hope that helps - pity you're not in Switzerland otherwise I'd do the job for you (in return for a small scrap piece of nice hardwood!).

Krgds
AES

 

[rdesign]

Have a look at ask wood man does a detailed build of the fence! his videos r painfully dragged out tho but very good content.
Askwoodman.com has a site or you can find him on youtube.

steve like your toggle clamp idea. simple and clever.

Regards Rick

 

[Steve Maskery]

I wish it were my idea, but it's not. I've simply improved a design that was published 20-odd years ago.
But yes, it is simple and clever.
S

 

[powertools]

Although these days my interest is in working with wood my background is in metal and welding.
In order to do some of the work I used to do I needed qualifications and I can say that it is perfectly possible to both gas weld and braze aluminum but as I am sure you know deep down it is not something that you will do using a propane blowlamp.

 

[aideym]

Brazing aluminium.
I watched with awe as a salesman made it look sooooo simple. I marvelled at the mounded pile of successfully welded parts on display. Convinced, I bought the kit, watched the videos and struggled to understand why I couldn't get anywhere near the success. I bought a posh blowtorch, I equipped it with the hottest gas known to man and B&Q and faired only slightly better. Frustrated and in need of a solution I discussed the matter with a friend who knows stuff like this, well he designs trains and seriously impressive stuff and he was amused that I was trying to braze aluminium, as adding heat to aluminium isn't something you want to do without a big oven to heat treat it. His suggestion was to bond it with one of the vast arrays of epoxy's out there. After suggesting some that are only available to people like him he suggested JB Weld. I have to say, that years later I still use this method when I need to stick ally to ally. Careful cleaning, with a stainless steel brush and a decent keying and this stuff lasts forever.

As for the fence, I built a fence following plans from the twisted knot workshop and later, having bought Steve Maskery's collection of DVD's and I can honestly say, there is no need to buy anything from the USA, it is all available here. Both designs are rock solid. I like the idea of an aluminium extrusion but again that has wide availability here too.

 

[marcros]

Absolutely- wasn't planning on buying the bits from abroad on any design- that was just a good picture of that design. Hadn't thought of epoxy, I have to admit. Found a design based on the toggle in a back issue of FWW. The aluminium option may be a non starter other than the extrusion part which looks useful.

 

[AES]

@powertools & aideym:

I do understand your viewpoints, especially yours powertools - I come from the aviation industry where all sorts of things are done with all sorts of ali BUT using highly specialised welding gear and highly trained regularly tested approved welders (and don't forget the material itself is not just "ali" but comes in all sorts of varieties with all sorts of properties and different heat treatments - VERY difficult to be sure exactly what you have), but WITH a lot of practice is is possible to get perfectly acceptable, strong joints using a decent propane torch and some of those rods.

BUT, as above, it does take lots of practice, hence my suggestion that for the average/occaisonal metal basher, Steve Maskery's idea is a good solution.

But I forgot the epoxy solution - personally I've had very good success with on ali the original Araldite (not the quick setting stuff) and with Devcon 30 minute epoxy. As with all such things though, the key is absolute cleanliness, as aideym said (personally, to the wire brushing I'd add a good clean up of the joint areas with Acetone after the brushing).

Krgds
AES

 

[The Bear]

I'm a bit late to this thread but have a q for Steve M if he's still listening. Would the fence in you DVD scale down for a bandsaw? I have a kity 613 so fairly small. I don't care if it looks bulky as long as it would not be too big to be practical. As the owner of a genuine biesmeyer if it's half as good it will be great. Cheers

Mark

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hi Mark
Yes, there is no reason at all why you could not fit it to a bandsaw. You would just have to make sure that your rail was long enough to the left to allow the fence itself to move back as far as the column. If your existing rail is not suitable, just take it off and replace it with a square one like I do and all will be tickety-boo. I have a friend who is building one for his very tiny bandsaw (I forget the model) at the moment.
It was a very good design originally and I have improved it a little.
Steve