Beginner - questions about alcoves and materials

[duotwr]

Hi

First time posting - apologies for andy daft questions I may put to the forum. This is a great site - I've learnt a lot already! I'm just starting out, from a fairly low baseline, with only a few tools at my disposal, and wanted to ask some advice on the perennial alcove shelving/cabinet question.

I'm doing some shelves, based on the torsion box idea, with pine and plywood - fairly happy with what I'm doing with these.

However, I want the bottom half to be cupboards - and here's my dilemma - whether to build the visible parts from PAR, plywood or mdf.

From lots of posts I've looked into mdf seems to be preferred - but as a naturally allergic person (asthma and eczema) I don't really fancy the dust issue. Also I don't know what is practical for a beginner from a dust control point of view, other than goggles and mask, and working outside. Finishing the mdf sounds a slog as well.

PArt of me is drawn to trying it in softwood or plywood - both of which I'm fairly familiar with. HAs anyone any advice? All thoughts much appreciated! The finish will be painted - so that might affect the choice.

Keith

 

[AndyT]

All of these could work, and work well. The professionals will prefer MDF because it will bring no surprises, so a quoted-for job will take a predictable time to complete.

How old is your house? Is part of your preference for softwood to do with wanting to make something more in tune with other fittings? IMHO, a softwood built in will look better than MDF - even when painted - if it is to go in a house with panelled doors, picture frames, moulded skirtings etc. That said, it would look better in chunkier wood than you might find at first - finished thickness of an inch, rather than 3/4.

 

[No skills]

The only daft question is the one not asked

For stuff I do indoors these days I'm using more and more real timber as opposed to the huge amounts of mdf I've used before. Its not easier to work with but I do enjoy it more, also I find the finishing (for a standard painted finish) is less work than the mdf.

Other than have a vac/extractor running on the tools your using I'm not sure what else you could do on a diy basis outside, if your skin is very sensitive to something like mdf dust perhaps you could wear some overalls or a lightweight paper suit (as used for paint spraying) to keep it off of your skin.

 

[duotwr]

Thanks for the speedy replies

The house is early 50's - any original features which might have existed have fairly much vanished.

I've been doing some shelving with 20mm finished width PAR from a local timber merchant - and that's been going OK. Built a kids kitchen from plywood last year - so that's why I feel (ever so slightly) more aware about these.

At this stage in my life - mid 30's with two young kids - time and money are always going to be an issue - and part of me thought some practice with mdf would be useful as I may well end up using it in other projects through cheapness if nothing else.

Minded to go with timber for this one though - although it'll cost a bit more.

And thanks for the dust management comments - let's hope for dry (if not warm) weekend mornings so I can work outside!

Keith

 

[maltrout512]

Welcome Keith to the forum. Just to keep it short I work a lot with wood (real wood) in the last couple of years I have had to make furniture out of mdf although it is verneerd. Because where they are going to be put in the house the temperature change would make real wood move so much that I would have to lodge there to make daily adjustments ( to draws etc ). So my point is there is a place when and where not to make furniture out of real wood, but verneered mdf.

Anyway all the best.

Some photo's or it didn't happen :lol:

 

[duotwr]

Another thought has occured to me - if anybody can help. I'd envisaged making doors from PAR with a plywood panel - probably just using loose tenons. Thing is - I've not got a router table at present - but do have a router. Is it possible AND safe to rout the grooves on the sides/ends of the rails/stiles without a router table?

Thanks

Keith

 

[chippy1970]

Another thought has occured to me - if anybody can help. I'd envisaged making doors from PAR with a plywood panel - probably just using loose tenons. Thing is - I've not got a router table at present - but do have a router. Is it possible AND safe to rout the grooves on the sides/ends of the rails/stiles without a router table?

Thanks

Keith

Yes its perfectly safe I have done it a few times in the past especially when I have 8ft high doors to make and only a small workshop you would need 8ft clearance either side of your router table if you follow me. I use a biscuit cutter in the router which cuts a 4mm slot, a bit fiddly to get it spot on but when you are set up right run it one way first then flip it over and run the slot again this will give you a 6mm slot dead centre. You can buy different width slot cutters but I just use the biscuit cutter as I already had it.

http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Onl ... t_138.html

Take a look at my gallery on my website below you will see the sort of shaker doors I make.

 

[duotwr]

I see - clever stuff.

I don't have a biscuit jointer, and so was looking into getting a cutter for the router anyway. I'd seen a couple of comments that trying to do biscuit cuts with a hand-held router was far from straightforward - another reason for getting a table set-up. Sounds like cutting a long groove works ok though.

I'll have a think. As an amateur and beginner a lot of my woodwork projects exist in my head - although at least I get to refine my designs a lot!

Keith

 

[No skills]

Biscuit cuts with a hand held router need to be made with care or you can quite easily end up cutting the holes/slots at an angle, the other problem (for me at least) is cutting them in smallish bits of wood - some carefull clamping down of the work piece is needed to allow for the router to move as it needs but still hold the wood securely to the bench.

If you can get round this with a bit of thought and practice then its not as bad as it sounds.

fwiw

 

[George_N]

I see - clever stuff.

I don't have a biscuit jointer, and so was looking into getting a cutter for the router anyway. I'd seen a couple of comments that trying to do biscuit cuts with a hand-held router was far from straightforward - another reason for getting a table set-up. Sounds like cutting a long groove works ok though.

I'll have a think. As an amateur and beginner a lot of my woodwork projects exist in my head - although at least I get to refine my designs a lot!

Keith

If you are getting a router bit specially for the job, I'd go for a 6.4 mm slot cutter like this from Wealden (you also need an arbour). That way you can use readily available 1/4" (6 mm) MDF stock for your panels. If you later want to use the router for biscuit jointing you can get a 4 mm groover and suitable bearings to restrict depth of cut (also from Wealden) that will fit on the arbour.

 

[chippy1970]

I see - clever stuff.

I don't have a biscuit jointer, and so was looking into getting a cutter for the router anyway. I'd seen a couple of comments that trying to do biscuit cuts with a hand-held router was far from straightforward - another reason for getting a table set-up. Sounds like cutting a long groove works ok though.

I'll have a think. As an amateur and beginner a lot of my woodwork projects exist in my head - although at least I get to refine my designs a lot!

Keith

If you are getting a router bit specially for the job, I'd go for a 6.4 mm slot cutter like this from Wealden (you also need an arbour). That way you can use readily available 1/4" (6 mm) MDF stock for your panels. If you later want to use the router for biscuit jointing you can get a 4 mm groover and suitable bearings to restrict depth of cut (also from Wealden) that will fit on the arbour.

Thats why I told him to get the 4mm biscuit cutter set that way he can do either 4mm slots or using the method I suggested he can do a 6mm+ slot tailored to suit the panel he is using no need to buy a 6.4mm cutter.

 

[George_N]

I see - clever stuff.

I don't have a biscuit jointer, and so was looking into getting a cutter for the router anyway. I'd seen a couple of comments that trying to do biscuit cuts with a hand-held router was far from straightforward - another reason for getting a table set-up. Sounds like cutting a long groove works ok though.

I'll have a think. As an amateur and beginner a lot of my woodwork projects exist in my head - although at least I get to refine my designs a lot!

Keith

If you are getting a router bit specially for the job, I'd go for a 6.4 mm slot cutter like this from Wealden (you also need an arbour). That way you can use readily available 1/4" (6 mm) MDF stock for your panels. If you later want to use the router for biscuit jointing you can get a 4 mm groover and suitable bearings to restrict depth of cut (also from Wealden) that will fit on the arbour.

Thats why I told him to get the 4mm biscuit cutter set that way he can do either 4mm slots or using the method I suggested he can do a 6mm+ slot tailored to suit the panel he is using no need to buy a 6.4mm cutter.

Chippy,
sorry, I didn't read your post properly, I see what you mean about flipping the board to get the slot centred. It does sound though, that Keith hasn't done this sort of work before and a cutter sized to the panel material would make the process a little more straightforward.

 

[chippy1970]

Yeah you could be right I know its hard enough for me to get it set up exactly right and Ive been doing it for years lol