Beall m33 x 3.5 spindle tap

[Keithie]

I've just received a nice new one of these (just over £20 cost from a relatively well know woodturning retailer) and it comes with nice clear 4 step instructions for using it on the lathe to create chuck & faceplates.

It doesnt make any mention of lubrication to help tapping or give suggestions on wood types (it does suggest not to use in end grain, not surprisingly) ...but thats not a fault of course. I've read all sorts of stuff such as using various vegetable oil concoctions as a lube by soaking the piece overnight in them and that beech is a much better choice than softwoods etc.

I was wondering if anyone had any practical experience of how to get the best out of this sort of tap (andthings that should be avoided etc)

cheers
Keith

 

[Robbo3]

I keep an old candle in the shed to lubricate both wood screws & threads. It also makes moving the tool along the rest much easier.

Beal Tap
Part 1 (7m)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE-OtSzoneU
Part 2 (7m)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3PoLaJUjow
Woodcraft (13m) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4Y4IqmSReM
Sistermaide (9m) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff7pR1C_RIQ
Alan Stratton (8m) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BNZUSOeaLk
Jim Duxbury - http://www.woodturningonline.com/assets ... rticle.pdf

Edited to add length of video.

 

[Keithie]

Thanks Robbo .....good videos (i didnt watch the third as it looked like the first two) ...seems like no need to soak the stock overnight in oil!...thats good!

All looks pretty simple ... lol...famous last words! should be very useful for jam chucks

cheers
Keith

 

[Sheptonphil]

I have never lubricated the thread to chase. If using a softer wood, I drizzle thin CA on the cut thread, leave overnight to cure.
The custom plates and jam chucks are all but for free as there is always odd bits of wood around, even seasoned wood from the wood burner pile.

Phil

 

[Keithie]

Thanks Phil ...the ca glue to harden the thread sounds like an excellent idea.

I have (literally) a shed load of well seasoned beech logs for the log-burner so between them and the 'western red cedar' blocks (lol...more like cheap fir) I shoukd end up with more chucks than reasonable

cheers
Keith

 

[Honest John]

I have a Beall tap in 1 1/4 X 8 and I find it really useful. I have used it in hard wood and decent hard-ish softwood. It works well in both side and end grain, but I would limit its end grain use to non critical and smaller jobs not subject to a great deal of stresses and strains. Small cupped or shaped friction plate drives for instance. The commonest use I have for the tap is for mounting sacrificial wooden faceplates which I true up and then glue items on to them. I have used this method for both small items, and for complete segmented turnings build ups. On completion I part off at the glue line, true up again and it's ready for use again. When it gets too thin to use just chuck it away and make another. Although I have a number of scroll chucks, this prevents me tying one up, or being tempted to unchuck and risk loosing concentricity. I'm sure you will find it to be one of the most useful bits of kit you can buy.
I have cut threads both dry and lubricated. Both work well, however my preferred method is to cut part way dry, then withdraw the tap and place finger dab of whatever paste wax is to hand and then cut to full depth. Repeated running in and withdrawing the tap to clear the debris and excess wax produces a very slick smooth and true running faceplate. Be sure to true up and shape the side you are going to cut the thread into so that it can register properly on the mandrel when it is fully tightened. This should ensure that it runs true. Have fun !

 

[Keithie]

Thanks John ...it seems like it should be a very useful tool indeed.

Will be interesting to see how long it lasts before the thread wears ...other brands look much harder wearing but also much more expensive.

I'm going to use beech with it mostly and see how that goes.. still need to get a 30mm boring bit to sink the hole.

The 'running in' hadnt occured to me but that makes sense to me. Getting it butted flat to the register a good plan too!

I suspect you're right about sticking to small stuff with it tho... perhaps not larger vases & bowls...I cant afford a full ballistic protection 'iron man' suit

cheers

 

[Honest John]

I think larger bowls and vessels will be fine on this mount. What I meant was that if you use an end grain thread, I wouldn't stress it too much because the threads will be very short grain. However, for lighter tasks, perhaps shop made mounts for mounting say a pepper mill that has already been hollowed, and you may wish to further detail the outside. These can be a problem as they are essentially tubes with stepped bores inside and require plugs of the correct size to drive and support each end. This would be an ideal situation where I am comfortable in using small end grain plugs. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Robbo3]

Nicely written John.

Care to expand on your gluing procedure?

Keith, I doubt whether it will wear it out in your, or even your children's lifetime, even if they were made from carbon steel. They are HSS (I think).

Edit: I thought they were HSS as in taps for metal but I can find no reference to Beall taps being made from HSS only hardened steel on the Lee Valley/Veritas web page.

 

[Honest John]

Robbo, I use 2 glue procedures. For smaller items I often use hot melt glue. Inevitably I put too much on because of a nagging doubt over its ability to hold. It is always far stronger that I expect it to be, and attempts to prise and rive away at the junction invariable ends up in tearing the wood out rather than breaking the bond. Hot melt glue is very powerful stuff and has always exceeded my expectations ! Mostly though I use titebond original or titebond 2. I liberally apply to both flatted surfaces, rub together then use the tailstock to centre and cramp. I'm not in a hurry to turn it and usually leave it overnight, but I have turned glued projects after a few hours without problem. Indeed the only time I have ever had a project let go so to speak is when I have used the paper joint method. Because of that I no longer glue up with a paper joint, except perhaps for spindle involuted turnings. Since I can easily part off at the glue line, or even further in at the headstock end, and then reverse and refinish the base, it seems to me unnessesary to use the paper glue method, which I have found can let go without warning. To my way of thinking the wood to wood joint is a better bet.

 

[Keithie]

I've not trued hot glue yet ...but have seen the guides on how to ...and your description, John, is pretty helpful as well. Hadnt thought of titebond (1 or 2) ..so I'll put that on my ever increasing list of things to try as well. Thanks.

Imma publish a book one day of all these ideas and how a novice fairs with them! ..if I could be bothered!

Robbo..you're probably right about 50-75years of use.. I dunno! ... I guess I'm unlikely to make more than 20 -50 chucks realistically ..and it should be good for that! ..so it may literally last forever ..due to lack of use!

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Keithie, where did you buy it as I'd like to get one?

Cheers

 

[paulm]

I think Toolpost do them Rob, if you can overcome your reluctance to use them !

 

[paulm]

I confess I've got one tucked away somewhere, had all sorts of plans of what to do with it, but for pretty much everything I've wanted to do the scroll chucks have been quicker and easier, but does depend on what you're doing I guess.....

 

[Keithie]

yup...toolpost ...i just did a search for 'toolpost beall m33' and it popped up ...it was £17.38 plus delivery

(it seems like an 'unusual' process buying from them including the slightly bizarre follow up messages (I can only guess they've had some delivery issues in the past!) ...but it was delivered securely and swiftly ..so no complaints from me)

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

mmm thanks chaps. Toolpost eh....mmm

 

[Robbo3]

Thanks John.

Some also use superglue. Glue on one half, accelerator on the other & apply pressure with the tailstock.

I use the hot glue gun method mainly because it's quick & easy. I use so little PVA glue that my stock is well over 10 years old so wouldn't trust it for work on the lathe - still ok for paper joints on split turnings. Though saying that, when I've had to break a PVA joint apart the wood has always given way before the glue.

 

[Keithie]

So I managed to tap a piece of beech that was destined for the logburner and get it onto the spindle without any problems ..

but, despite the tap being more than deep enough couldn't get it over the last tiny 'lump' in front of the register .. and therefore couldn't set it against the register..

Before I start hacking away, am I right in thinking I just need to countersink the register facing end sufficiently to get over the 'lump' ?

Also, even after a bit of thread waxing, the wooden chuck is not the simplest thing to take off the spindle! .. Any tips to make it easier next time please anyone ?

 

[CHJ]

The register countersink should match the register collar, on chucks that is what is supposed to give true alignment, although many ill-fitting chucks get away with just centralising on the threads, but these can move under catch conditions.
Make sure your wood for 'chuck' is dry, stock from the firewood pile may not be, if left on the thread too long it may cause corrosion.

Don't use wood finishing oils or paste wax on thread, it will tend to swell wood fibres.

A Dry PTFE lube should help once volatiles have evaporated, do not use anything with Silicone in.

 

[Keithie]

Thanks ...

- sounds like a careful tweak with a parting tool on the (wood) collar rather than a sweeping countersink then ..thanks
- wood very dry ...been in the older shed for 4 years ...but it hadnt occurred to me not to use green!
- I used renwax on the thread (of the wood)...i'll probably use some CA glue on it later when it comes off (as a hardener)
- I was tempted to use Silicone as a lube after (as I dont have ptfe) ...so good to know I shouldnt, thanks.. will get some ptfe spray!