Be honest - can I do it?

[mister henderson]

One particularly important point is to take several light cuts, advancing the depth of cut a few mm at a time, rather than to try to cut the full depth in one go.

Unless it is the final skimming cut of maybe only a millimetre, in which case you can do the whole cut in one go, as you may well get a stepped edge otherwise

It's a question of how much material you are removing, the wider the cut, the less deep

 

[FrenchIan]

Gentlemen, one last question if I may. It concerns shank sizes.

I've decided to go for a 1/2" router. As I'll be using it in France, I'll want to buy my cutters there if I can, and I've read that the correct size of cutters is very important.

If I use continental cutters (6mm, 8mm and 12mm), am I right in thinking I'll need a continental router, as a UK one will have collets for 1/4" (6.3mm) and 1/2" (12.7mm)?

(FWIT, I'm looking at Ryobi and Bosch. They're available in both countries, though cheaper here)

 

[Steve Maskery]

Yep, that's about it. You'll need collets for the same size as the cutters you are using. 12mm and half-inch are not the same.

The Voltage and Hz must be the same too, but I don't think that's an issue is it? 240V 50Hz in the UK, I think France is the same.

Cheers
Steve

 

[kevinr]

If its any reassurance I thought I would add that I did my own joints in (about) 1993 before I'd even heard of jigs or using routers for it. This was in good quality laminated chipboard. I managed two joints using a circular saw and a jigsaw!

They were not perfect - but I was recommended to seal the joint using colorfill (colour matched compound). Each joint was then bolted from below in the usual way.

The worktops were a speckled granite look and so I used a darkish grey compound. The colorfill has eroded a bit over the years and the worst gap - on the angled cut - was always about 3mm. I should refinish with some more compound. However you cannot really see it from 5 feet away and its been stable since - even the one 18" from the sink. The bulk of the joint is only visible due to the discontinuity in the granite pattern.

IF you use a jig/router and have a bit of a practice first you should be even better. Either work out your wastage first and hack off a lump for practice or get a 40mm run from (your equivalent of) Wickes and destroy it neatly! I've also found people selling remnants on eBay, and some people might get a half sheet cheap to practice on that way.

 

[Scott]

Ian

I use 1/4", 8mm and 1/2" and don't bother buying bits in France. Mainly because I'm not sure of the quality of makes that I've never heard of. Get all my bits from Wealden. Quality is excellent, service is the same. They arrive in a couple of days and the postage is peanuts.

Good luck with the worktops

Cheers

 

[FrenchIan]

Ian

I use 1/4", 8mm and 1/2" and don't bother buying bits in France. Mainly because I'm not sure of the quality of makes that I've never heard of. Get all my bits from Wealden. Quality is excellent, service is the same. They arrive in a couple of days and the postage is peanuts.

Good luck with the worktops

Cheers

Good point. If I'd thought of that option, I could have bought an imperial-sized router here, and saved a little money. Too late now though - I'm due to cross back to France tomorrow so am thus committed to buy the router there.

I can still order metric cutters from the UK though. Thanks for the pointer.

 

[skipdiver]

One other thing that needs mentioning is the way you attach the worktops to the units.You will need to use stretcher plates to allow for any movement in the wooden tops.You will also need to use dome head screws which you tighten then slacken off half a turn.Countersunk screws are no good for this purpose.

 

[FrenchIan]

One other thing that needs mentioning is the way you attach the worktops to the units.You will need to use stretcher plates to allow for any movement in the wooden tops.You will also need to use dome head screws which you tighten then slacken off half a turn.Countersunk screws are no good for this purpose.

Thanks, Skipdiver, I'll do that.

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Ian,

For someone who has never used a router, well there has to be a first time for everything. One tip I learned was first get used to the way a router feels when it is running. Get it running without a cutter fitted.

Lock the plunge mechanism so the collet is well above the base. Hold the router down firmly on a flat suface and switch on. Then progress to just holding it. You'll get used to the torque as you start it, if it isn't a 'soft-start' router. (Most of them are these days.)

A router is a versatile bit of kit, but maybe its prime function was to speed up the process of moulding and grooving. You'll soon find out the myriad of other jobs routers can do and you'll wonder how you ever managed without one.

Just use normal common-sense. Read the manual so you understand which way to move the router, for whatever task you are doing.

Whatever you do, respect the router, but don't fear it and practice on scrap material. Hold the router firmly, but don't try to strangle it. And keep the router UNPLUGGED when you are fitting or removing cutters.

Best of luck

John

 

[woodbloke]

Benchwayze wrote:

keep the router UNPLUGGED when you are fitting or removing cutters.

...or at least switched off at the socket - Rob

 

[Benchwayze]

Ian

Get all my bits from Wealden. Quality is excellent, service is the same. They arrive in a couple of days and the postage is peanuts.

Good luck with the worktops

Cheers

I can confirm this...
John

 

[skipdiver]

Yeah,good service and decent prices.

 

[compo]

Hiya FrenchIan have you fitted your worktops yet?

Just to give my two pennies worth. I have fitted quite a few solid tops and the main issue is to allow for movement, and to balance the finish.

I tend to drill a 10/12mm hole in the carcase rails and use a washer and screw just nipped up to secure them and allow plenty of expansion gap against the wall if possible. And please make sure you apply oil to all sides and edges that will be hidden before you fit them in place. I like to give at least two coats to the underside depending on how absorbent the timber is.

I know it's a pain, when all you want is to fit them. BUT believe me I've had to replace tops that have lifted the units off the floor due to movement.

Don't want to put you off, you just need to know. A simple butt joint, biscuits or loose tongue, expansion slots, proper finishing and you'll have worktops to be proud of and that should out last you!

Enjoy!

 

[FrenchIan]

Hiya FrenchIan have you fitted your worktops yet?

Just to give my two pennies worth. I have fitted quite a few solid tops and the main issue is to allow for movement, and to balance the finish.

I tend to drill a 10/12mm hole in the carcase rails and use a washer and screw just nipped up to secure them and allow plenty of expansion gap against the wall if possible. And please make sure you apply oil to all sides and edges that will be hidden before you fit them in place. I like to give at least two coats to the underside depending on how absorbent the timber is.

I know it's a pain, when all you want is to fit them. BUT believe me I've had to replace tops that have lifted the units off the floor due to movement.

Don't want to put you off, you just need to know. A simple butt joint, biscuits or loose tongue, expansion slots, proper finishing and you'll have worktops to be proud of and that should out last you!

Enjoy!

Compo, thanks for the advice. I've not started yet, so I'll incorporate it all in the work as I do it.

I've got some Danish Oil, and I'm going to apply several coats to all surfaces before final assembly. Then, once assembled, another one or two on the exposed surfaces. I'm planning to glue/seal the jointing faces with a smear of silicone sealant during final fitting, then ensure the join (gap?) gets well treated when I put on the second set of coats.

By the way, I've heard that it can be difficult to seal worktops round an underhung Belfast Sink, so I've chosen a lay-on ceramic instead. I'd planned to seal it to the top with a bead of silicone all round. I'm wondering if this will stick to oiled wood?

As for the back edge, with my skills there's usually a gap there anyway, which I hide with thick tiles on the wall. This time, it'll be intentional.....

I'm not planning to join the butting faces with biscuits, though. It would be another routing rechnique to learn, and with so many new skills needed, I had hoped to skip it. Is this another of my bad decisions? If there's a mismatch between the two worktops, I suppose I can always claim its part of the rustic french look.

Cheers

 

[compo]

Hey Ian.

Glad you got some use from my opinion. Sounds like you've got it sussed. You should be fine with silicone, the sink will weigh a ton anyway! just be aware if you silicone the join (which is fine) if the fit is not perfect the silicone will plim up and start to peel when sanded or wiped after a while. Just don't put too much on and smear it, don't apply it in beads.

No need to worry about biscuits then, but ensure you use some kind of worktop bolts. And remember you can always sand and refinish, that's the good thing about timber tops

Looking forward to the photos.

 

[FrenchIan]

And the answer is, it went well!

As you strongly suggested I do, I bought a big router rather than a cheapo - a Triton MOF001, to be precise. (It's a great product, but there are some things about it I don't like. For example, the turret stops is a great idea - set the cutting depths up before you start - but it seems loose and flimsy - it should click round from position to position, I think. Also, I'd prefer to able to switch the router on and off while holding it firmly with two hands, but that's not possible. I guess a lot of my reservations will disappear as I become more familiar and comfortable with it. One thing I really like is the extended baseplate that came with it - makes it very stable.)

As practice, I made a jig (one of Niki's I think) - a combination of a straight edge and a spacer - clamp it against the cutting line and run the router along the straight edge (a shooting board?).

It was invaluable, and helped me cut the second worktop to give an almost perfect join. It would have been perfect, except what seemed to be a perfectly straight edge when I cut it for the jig, turns out to curve by about 1mm over 1 metre. I'll have to make another now - Plan B is to use something like a strip of Contiboard - ex-factory, should be perfectly straight, and also nice and smooth for the router to slide along.

I also had to made another jig to mark the position for the door/drawer handles. (IKEA sell a plastic one for £1.50, but they wouldn't post one to me, and my nearest shop is 200 miles away). This was more tricky - it needed a piece exactly straight and exactly 30mm thick - difficult to clamp, align and machine something so small. The answer would have been a router table or a thicknesser/planer, neither of which I have. is there another answer?

On the subject of finishing, I'm using Danish Oil, two coats so far and more to come, well worked in. Even after 24/36 hours, there's still a suggestion of tackiness. I'm assuming that this is because it's oak, fairly unabsorbent, and it will dry in time?

Finally, regarding movement of the wooden worktops. They're held to the units by screws with penny washers, through large clearance holes in the top rails of the units. Do I have to loosen and re-tighten these regularly, to allow the wood to move? Or, having let the oiled wood settle in situ for a few days, can I loosen and retighten once, then forget about it?

Thanks to all of you for your advice and help. Now I've made the first step into routering (routing?), I can see lots more things to do with it. A lot more oak used around the house in future, I think.

 

[Argee]

.... a Triton MOF001, to be precise. (It's a great product, but there are some things about it I don't like. For example, the turret stops is a great idea - set the cutting depths up before you start - but it seems loose and flimsy - it should click round from position to position, I think. Also, I'd prefer to able to switch the router on and off while holding it firmly with two hands, but that's not possible.

The turret is fitted to the base with a self-tapping screw and tensioned by a ball and spring. You need to remove the black baseplate to adjust the tension and - once set - you should only turn the turret clockwise. This will prevent the screw from becoming loose. If it's not clicking, there may be dust clogging the indents in the base - an airline blast should sort that out, but do NOT loosen the turret first, otherwise the small ball bearing may be ejected and lost forever.

Regarding safe switching off whilst gripped by two hands - this is the way it was designed to work when hand-held. The router is meant to be used with the winding handle (rack and pinion post) to the right. This means that the on/off switch is to the left, as shown below (admittedly on the larger machine, but the principle holds good for the MOF001 too):

Your left thumb will naturally rest on the top of the left-hand handle shaft, allowing a short upward movement of the thumb to flick the power switch off and allow the safety cover to close. If using the router "backwards" (i.e., with the winding handle to the left), this motion becomes impossible.

HTH

Ray.

 

[FrenchIan]

.... a Triton MOF001, to be precise. (It's a great product, but there are some things about it I don't like. For example, the turret stops is a great idea - set the cutting depths up before you start - but it seems loose and flimsy - it should click round from position to position, I think. Also, I'd prefer to able to switch the router on and off while holding it firmly with two hands, but that's not possible.

The turret is fitted to the base with a self-tapping screw and tensioned by a ball and spring. You need to remove the black baseplate to adjust the tension and - once set - you should only turn the turret clockwise. This will prevent the screw from becoming loose. If it's not clicking, there may be dust clogging the indents in the base - an airline blast should sort that out, but do NOT loosen the turret first, otherwise the small ball bearing may be ejected and lost forever.

Regarding safe switching off whilst gripped by two hands - this is the way it was designed to work when hand-held. The router is meant to be used with the winding handle (rack and pinion post) to the right. This means that the on/off switch is to the left, as shown below (admittedly on the larger machine, but the principle holds good for the MOF001 too):

Your left thumb will naturally rest on the top of the left-hand handle shaft, allowing a short upward movement of the thumb to flick the power switch off and allow the safety cover to close. If using the router "backwards" (i.e., with the winding handle to the left), this motion becomes impossible.

HTH

Ray.

Ray, I thought the turret must work better - it didn't sit with the good design of the rest of the router. I'll go and gently tighten it.

Also, re the power switch. I had fitted the extended base plate the wrong way, putting the switch at my right hand. I see now that it will work better the other way around. It will be changed.

Thanks for this - just confirms the good design that went into it.

 

[compo]

Glad all went well Ian... See, not so tough is it?
AND you've got a shiny new toy \/

Don't worry about loosening / tightening the screws, just nip 'em up and be done. The oil will dry in time, it's easy to apply too much in one go, but you'll know because there will be an obvious dark sludge build up in the corners.

Just don't get carried away with all the lovely accessories for the Triton

 

[Oryxdesign]

So I guess the answer would be yes, I hope this gives you the confidence to tackle future projects. Look forward to hearing about your forthcoming work.
Simon