Basic planes

[LarryS.]

Hi,

I'm new to woodworking and have dived straight in with power tool purchases. Its become obvious that I need a couple of planes (one being a block plane) so can anyone recommend what I should get if only two planes and up to £100 to spend for the two ? Is second-hand the way to go ?

thanks


paul

 

[WellsWood]

Paul,
don't forget anything that is designed to cut will also require sharpening, so your budget will need to include this facility if you don't already have it. As a confirmed power tool user long before I came to appreciate the black art of handtools I know only too well how easy it is to overlook this.

As to your planes you're right to think block plane, it certainly is what I use most often. I love my Veritas low angle one, but the cheap and cheerful Stanley 102 gets used a **** of a lot for basic stuff like just easing corners, fitting back panels and the like. And I can toss it in the toolbox with impunity for out-of-the-workshop stuff, which I wouldn't dream of doing to the LV.
A smoother or jack plane (or both) should be aqcuired early on also. No need to spend lots at this stage, the lessons you'll learn making a cheap one cut well will stand you in better stead than going straight to Clifton or Lie Nielsen at this stage. DON'T buy secondhand from Ebay, there are some good planes to be had there but separating them from the piles of rubbish is an art all in itself, you'll likely have to buy 3 to get one worth fettling even. Good ones there rarely go for bargain prices anyway - it's not unheard of for s/h LNs to change hands for more than the new price - go figure, as our US cousins say.
If you fancy older stuff you could do a lot worse than Ray Iles who does a nice line in s/h Stanleys with reground soles.

Careful on that slope though, it can really slippery :wink:

 

[MrJay]

Welcome to the slope. £100 will disappear rather quickly when buying planes. And there's plenty of junk out there not worth the money waiting to be gobbled up by the unwary. If you could up the budget considerably to one of them Veritas Bevel Up Low Angle bench planes you'd be sure of a top quality tool that is remarkably versatile and easy to live with (hand tools are normally highly specialised to specific jobs and require tweaking and training) I reckon they could be an ideal companion to power tools.

With block planes adjustable is the way to go. They're for tweaking things to fit and sometimes you need to take off a little stuff, sometimes rather a bit more. Again - Veritas will see you right, but not in your budget if you also want a bench plane or three. Stanley/Record do a similar low angle block plane - but the quality takes a dive into DIY land. After many years practice you'll work out what to look for in a good one and how to tweak it to make it go properly. They seem to go on ebay for £30 - £40.

Back to bench planes and trying to keep you in budget you can forgo (reluctantly, granted) the smoothing plane and use sand paper and a scrap for a sanding block or one of those new fangled random orbit thingies. You could go for a second hand Stanley Record Jack plane and swap the cutting iron for something made of proper cutting iron stuff and tweak it to do something useful (the Jack is intended as a rough tool and they tend to come machined suitably roughly). Lots of power tool users like a highly tuned #5 or #5 1/2 with a decent blade for cleaning up after power tools. The quality of pre 70s Stanley and Record planes is variable, which means there's at least a chance of picking up a good one - after you've lapped a few soles and tweaked some frogs and smoothed the edges you'll understand why getting a good pre 70s one is what you're after. (Getting one from Ray Iles as mentioned above will get you a good head start)

Or you could hit the car boot sales and buy a woodie. The advantage is that there are some stunning planes available for pennies or there abouts and you'll have change for sharpening stones and a pint. Again, the Jack is a rough plane - you want to look for one with a well fitting, decent bit of cutting iron and that doesn't fall apart. If the sole is rough and the mouth wide so much the better. The Trying plane (the big long one) would be the one you'd most likely use the most and a little more care is needed in the buying. You'll want to flatten the sole (easily done with a woodie) to get the trying plane to work properly, but in doing so you'll open the mouth slightly - you want a plane where the mouth is tight enough already to stand a little extra widening (ideally the mouth with the blade in and set is only a little bit wider than the shavings you want to take - about paper width on a trying plane) - failing that you can readily repair the mouth with an insert.

 

[Philly]

Paul
Some good advice there - one thing to remember is that you will never regret buying a good plane. And you'll never have to replace it!
So a decent block plane is a good place to start - Lie-Nielsen or Veritas make some great planes.
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[MrJay]

For that matter, I've heard Philly Planes aren't altogether shabby.

 

[LarryS.]

excellent info guys thanks, as ever a new area of Woodworking is opening up and looking much more complicated than i thought !

I've got a bog-standard B&Q plane (think thats what a 'jack' plane is?) that by the sounds of things should be ok for now but with the addition of a low angle block plane, I'll do some digging to see the price comparison between stanley 102 and a veritas model

thanks again

 

[Racers]

Hi,

The B&Q plane is more correctly called a door stop, get an old Stanley or Record from a car boot sale. But I can recommend a Lie-Nielsen 60 1/2 very nice to use.

Pete

 

[LarryS.]

Hi,

The B&Q plane is more correctly called a door stop, get an old Stanley or Record from a car boot sale. But I can recommend a Lie-Nielsen 60 1/2 very nice to use.

Pete

even if its made by stanley ??

 

[Racers]

Hi,

Yes, the accountants took over in the 70s and the quality went down hill.


Pete

 

[Paul Chapman]

It really is worth getting a good block plane. Work on stuff like hard wood end grain is very demanding and, in my experience, even an old, well fettled Stanley or Record will struggle. I have an old Stanley #60 1/2 which I've spent a lot of time on and it now works as well as it ever will, but it's not a patch on my Veritas low angle block plane. Currently, the two best block planes are the Veritas and Lie Nielsen low angle ones. They are streets ahead of anything Record or Stanley ever produced. They are heavy, have thick blades with good blade seating, can be adjusted very precisely, and the Veritas has a lovely Norris-type adjuster. My advice would be to get the Veritas or Lie Nielsen - a Stanley or Record (whatever age) will lead to nothing but frustration.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[frugal]

I'm new to woodworking and have dived straight in with power tool purchases. Its become obvious that I need a couple of planes (one being a block plane) so can anyone recommend what I should get if only two planes and up to £100 to spend for the two ? Is second-hand the way to go ?

As you are in Bath, I can recommend a trip over to Bristol to visit Bristol Design. They have a huge range of second hand tools. You should be able to pick up a couple of planes and some sharping stones for under £100.

 

[LarryS.]

thanks for the tip, i'd never heard of them before, is it a shop or a manufacturer ?

thanks

 

[Philly]

Paul
Bristol Design is a shop AND manufacturer. They have a shop which sells all sorts of used tools as well as their own range of chisel and planes/plane body castings.
Well worth a visit (although smaller than you might imagine) and smells like a real toolshop should.
Best regards
Philly

 

[digitalbot]

I was going to post this very same topic. Look like some good advice here, as usual. Just got to find the money now. :?:

 

[johnnyb]

veritas make a reasonably priced "apron plane" same as a block but not quite the adjustment. may be worth considering. an older bailey pattern jack is not a bad investment. but the new blades are worthless. i have an older record spokeshave that never seems to go blunt, a lucky good un.

 

[Oryxdesign]

I think for a beginner you'll learn a lot fettling and tuning a cheap plane (not too cheap). If you go straight out and buy a LN you'll be too scared to play with it and try different things. Anyway after all that time fettling you'll get your money back on ebay and be able to make a more informed choice about what's right for you. That's where I'm at, standing on the edge of the slope with my hands in my pockets looking along way down.

 

[Digit]

That sounds good sense to me.

Roy.

 

[Smudger]

How about going to OldTools Co http://www.oldtools.co.uk/index.php
or the Old Tool Shop
http://www.theoldtoolshop.fsnet.co.uk/

or even Ray Iles,
http://www.oldtools.free-online.co.uk/index.htm

all of whom have good quality Record and Stanley planes for sale. Ray Iles will even tune them up and sharpen them ready for use, and you are unlikely to pay much more than £35 - £45 for a No5. You then have comeback if all is not well, and the planes will have been assessed and handled by people who know about planes, unlike the broken, rusted wrecks advertised as 'rare' on eBay.

 

[MrJay]

The thing I soon learned from buying cheap old junk with a view to restoration is not to buy so much cheap old junk with a view to restoration.

I've not tried a plane from Ray Iles, but if he flattens the back of the cutting iron and puts the sole into fair shape then I reckon that has to be a better place to start from and well worth the extra £10-£15 over the usual ebay prices.

 

[Anonymous]

Paul

The LN bronze apron plane is superb and many on here have one and love it. They are not too expensive either

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Lie-Nielsen-Nos.-102-and-103-Block-Planes-20370.htm

and even cheaper iron

A very good first plane


I love using hand planes more than any other tool (as is evident in this month's GWW :wink: ). I use them alnost every time I am in the workshop.

Personally, after tuning loads of old planes for days at a time, I would not recommend this route to anyone. I want a tool to use, not one that I spend all my time trying to get it to work properly. Woodwork I enjoy, metalwork not so much.

Buy a LN or LV (or clifton) and use it out of the box - it will perform better the day it arrives then any 'tuned' Stanley or Record ever will.

This has been my experience with a dozen old staleys/record, one or two new stanleys and quite a few LNs and LVs and Cliftons, and I stand by it

PS I have now sold all my 'old' planes except the very first (sentimental reasons) and replaced them with LN/LV/Clifton and if I could turn back time, I wouldn't have wasted my time on those stanleys :wink: