Basic plane - expensive iron?

[bugbear]

Personally I'm not convinced that the bevel angle is at all important, so long as the back edge remains clear of the wood that's being cut.

Roy.

Steve Knight (a plane maker) performed some fairly convincing experiments that said the bevel angle did matter - to some extent.

He was also in the unusual position of being able to perform EP experiments in BD planes - by "simply" making a matched set!

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

....
The advantage of the thick iron (around 6mm) is that the single bevel is then easy to find on the waterstone,......

I wouldn't have thought that was anything to do with it as it's perfectly easy (with tiny bit of practice) to hit a chosen angle close enough with a thin iron, or anything for that matter. How would you sharpen a knife for instance?

More likely it's just tradition and the fact that a thin iron won't work without the usual extras (cap iron etc). Thick blades are simpler. Jap planes/chisels are not that different from western ones. Our wooden plane design was virtually unchanged for 100s of years, just like theirs, and both work perfectly well.

 

[Digit]

by "simply" making a matched set!

Are we both talking the same thing BB? I'm thinking Frog at 45 degrees, iron ground to 30 ish and honed at between those figures.

Roy.

 

[David C]

Paul,

Could the no.9 plate be used in a bench plane? I will check tomorrow.

Some Japanese planes have cap irons.

David

 

[Digit]

And some Brit ones don't, but in general......

Roy.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Paul,

Could the no.9 plate be used in a bench plane? I will check tomorrow.

Hi David,

I've not tried it but I'll check mine as well. With a very thick blade and the plate instead of a cap iron, you'd still be up against the old problem that the Y-lever might not be long enough but that problem is not insurmountable.

I've been meaning to check the feasibility of using the plate as I use a toothed blade in one of my bevel-down planes. I have to set the cap iron back a long way to stop the shavings getting trapped but maybe using it without a cap iron and using the plate instead would be better

Might need a thicker blade for it to work well without a cap iron but I think LN do them :-k

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[David C]

Paul,

A custom (longer) plate would be needed. The yoke is much futher back in the no.9.

David

 

[Jacob]

..... supremely sharp and correctly shaped edge......

"supreme" sharpness is not needed in woodwork - even if you could achieve it it wouldn't last for very long. It's all a compromise - "optimum" sharpness would be a better target i.e. a practical approach to getting the work done.....

Actually I've changed my mind on that. Sometimes you do need a razor edge. I was just trimming the ends of some little mahogany strips (feet on a banjo bridge) and the only way was with uber sharp 1/2" chisel. Easily uber sharpened with a few dabs on a fine oil stone followed by a bit of a strop on some leather. Then strop again between cuts.
So yes for finishing cuts by chisel or plane, and keep the edge supremely sharp by stropping in between very short periods of use.
Which is where the bailey pattern plane, thin blade plus stayset iron come into their own - easy to eject the blade, hone, click it back in, matter of a few seconds.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Paul,

A custom (longer) plate would be needed. The yoke is much futher back in the no.9.

David

Thanks for that, David - I suspected that might be the case. Should be possible to make up something suitable - I might have a go sometime.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Paul Chapman]

Actually I've changed my mind on that.

Are you sure you're not a woman, Jacob :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[GazPal]

I've been meaning to check the feasibility of using the plate as I use a toothed blade in one of my bevel-down planes. I have to set the cap iron back a long way to stop the shavings getting trapped but maybe using it without a cap iron and using the plate instead would be better

Might need a thicker blade for it to work well without a cap iron but I think LN do them :-k

Cheers :wink:

Paul

One way around using standard toothed blades/irons in bevel down planes (Which I used often when thicknessing soundboard and backboard plates for musical instruments) is to keep them for standard toothing planes, but adapt a standard blade/iron by toothing the bevel instead of the face of the blade/iron. This eliminates clogging problems between iron and cap iron, whilst maintaining the use of standard cap irons and no need for heavier or thicker options. :wink:

I tooth irons using either round or triangular needle files and this avoids any risk of softening edge steel if using a Dremel-like tool for the same process. It takes a matter of minutes to tooth a blade/iron and is easily re-toothed when necessary after twenty or so sharpenings.

 

[Jacob]

Actually I've changed my mind on that.

Are you sure you're not a woman, Jacob :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Dunno I'll have a look later. :shock:

 

[Alf]

Actually I've changed my mind on that.

Are you sure you're not a woman, Jacob :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Careful, Paul... [-X :lol:

 

[Paul Chapman]

Actually I've changed my mind on that.

Are you sure you're not a woman, Jacob :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Careful, Paul... [-X :lol:

Oops

 

[Paul Chapman]

One way around using standard toothed blades/irons in bevel down planes (Which I used often when thicknessing soundboard and backboard plates for musical instruments) is to keep them for standard toothing planes, but adapt a standard blade/iron by toothing the bevel instead of the face of the blade/iron. This eliminates clogging problems between iron and cap iron, whilst maintaining the use of standard cap irons and no need for heavier or thicker options. :wink:

Neat idea - never thought of that.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[James C]

Following the advice of this thread, as well as some helpful advice from Jacob about sole flattening, I have got my Stanley No.7 performing amazingly today. I picked up a Clifton Stay Set and it has really given strength to the blade. I was planing some nice English Oak that was giving me lots of tear out last week and it is come up really nicely, it doesn't really need smoothing at all.

I won't tell SWMBO though as I would still quite like a Smoothing plane to add to the arsenal, all the ones at school are quite warped.

 

[GazPal]

Alf,

My counter view would be, that using a honing guide and Charlesworth methods, students get a wonderful edge on day one or possibly day two....

best wishes,

David

Yebbut they still have to learn to do it properly. They might as well start freehand, in spite of the (very slight) difficulty. It never held anybody back in the past.
Most people learn to ride a bike without ever needing stabilisers!

Both camps share equal merit, but my preference rests with freehand honing, because minimal practise tends to lead to solid results without relying upon anything more than hand:eye co-ordination. Unfortunately this doesn't come naturally to some and that is when honing guides come into their own as a means of helping achieve a chosen goal. Guides can be discarded at any time if a user fancies test driving freehand honing techniques and shouldn't be viewed as a crutch, but guides can also be freely adopted and used.

 

[Benchwayze]

'Clunk-Click' it's out and on the deck! :roll: