Bandsaw not cutting square

[johnbb99]

I'm using my record sabre 350 to cut some 50mm x 20mm section pieces of [old] oak to length, and wanting them square. Not much to ask, surely?
(The blade isn't new, but it's cutting this stock without any issues. )
The blade guides are no more than about 75mm above the stock. one upper guide [bearing] rotates, the other doesn't, but it's set to within a mm. They're not supposed to pinch the blade are they?
I'm using a pretty solid mitre gauge [different make but same features as in the photo], which has much less slack than the amount of error in the cut.
It's knot-free, straight grained stock but when I cut one end, it's a mm out over the 50mm. I flip it to the other end, and it's pretty well square.
How did I flip it? Good question! I think I spun it [like a compass needle] but I may have flipped it like a book page. If that makes any difference.
Any ideas why? Please? (Driving me nuts!)

 

[johnnyb]

The bandsaw blade is slew to the mitre gauge.

 

[Sachakins]

Is your blade parallel to mitre slot?
Worn blades can wander.
You could try a bandsaw buddy to check blade alignment to the mitre slot first.

 

[Blister]

Buy yourself a bandsaw setup book .

 

[Ttrees]

Buy yourself a bandsaw setup book .

Unfortunately nothing decent exists, whatsoever.

Mark Duginske's book is often recommended, as it's said to be one of the best,
concerning the use, that is, and available in video format too, so a bit pointless to
buy something, since it's an interesting watch.

but just the same as everything else, nothing to do with setup,
and merely containing the usual blade tracking tutes, if your looking for more, you won't find much better in that sense.

Things have moved a long way since then, the Italian's like Centauro, Meber, and well over a dozen other companies local to them in Northern Italy, have given the blueprint for modern design thereafter, and beat everyone else concerning design,
so basically everything nowadays is just a lesser copy of those.

I've documented all that properly last year, as I was chasing my tail before then.
You might not find it here, for good reason, though I've posted all that on multiple other forums since.

That is if you want foolproof commissioning of the machine, though it may likely show up the
shortcomings of such,
and the same with anything else, what's not the the CO from mid 1980's, to 1995, (the ones with telescopic guards, and no mitre slots) and the Meber's what's basically the same design
(fully adjustable machines)

Those ones aren't built with the intention of failure eventually, they were built to wipe the floor of the competition worldwide, featuring foolproof construction compared to the next design with such intentions, that being lasting in industury for a very long long time, pay for itself kinda thing,
being much beyond some machines what you might see today.

The RP machines sticking to that recipe, compared to others being marketed of recent,
though still not foolproof, due to the non adjustable motor design, like everything else you'll find what's not the CO or the similar specific Meber mentioned.

That's up to you, should you want to have something which would last forever.
If not, then adjust your table as said above, and pray for longevity by being ignorant
in believing the manufacturers know best.

Worth noting, there's as much misinformation spread about bandsaws as there is dangerous ways to use a tablesaw.
The reasoning being more "jobs for the boys" if things are kept the way they are.

All the best
Tom

 

[johnbb99]

Buy yourself a bandsaw setup book

I take it you believe the saw is not set up well.
You may be right, but it had been , and still does most cuts just fine, as far as I'm aware.
This trimming of a piece of small-sized stock seems so undemanding.
I'll experiment to check.

 

[johnbb99]

Unfortunately nothing decent exists, whatsoever.

Wow!
I'm guessing you spent a lot of money on a machine with a good reputation, and it all went badly.
I hope you're feeling better now.

 

[Fitzroy]

I'm using my record sabre 350 to cut some 50mm x 20mm section pieces of [old] oak to length, and wanting them square. Not much to ask, surely?
(The blade isn't new, but it's cutting this stock without any issues. )
The blade guides are no more than about 75mm above the stock. one upper guide [bearing] rotates, the other doesn't, but it's set to within a mm. They're not supposed to pinch the blade are they?
I'm using a pretty solid mitre gauge [different make but same features as in the photo], which has much less slack than the amount of error in the cut.
It's knot-free, straight grained stock but when I cut one end, it's a mm out over the 50mm. I flip it to the other end, and it's pretty well square.
How did I flip it? Good question! I think I spun it [like a compass needle] but I may have flipped it like a book page. If that makes any difference.
Any ideas why? Please? (Driving me nuts!)
View attachment 175714

Guides should not pinch the blade, correct. One bearing rotating means the blade is preferentially loaded that direction, however it may only just be touching the bearing to make it spin. Squaring ends of stock is not a job the band-saw is ideally suited to due to the flexibility of the blade, hence a circular saw type device is more traditionally used, table saw with sled, mitresaw etc.

Things I would be looking at is once I have pushed the piece past the blade can i bring it back past the blade, or does it catch. If everything is spot on it should come back past the blade with the tenderest of kiss between teeth and workpiece. In this case it would indicate your blade is not perpendicular to your fence.

If the blade is deflecting in the cut then you'll find it rubs considerably on the workpiece as you move it back to the start. This could be a dull blade or a blade duller one side than the other, or technique eg moving the workpiece on the guide during the cut, or your fence could be rotating in the slot during the cut. You could also be lacking some blade tension.

The cut will also only be square with the side of your workpiece referenced against the fence, so any check of squareness needs to be from that face.

Nothing hugely helpful sorry, but some thoughts. My last shot is some empathy with your situation, the bandsaw is the tool that I've struggled with the most over the years! I'm on my third model now (Elu 3401, Startrite 352, Axminster 4300) and it is only with the latest machine that I've really got it running as I want.

F.

 

[Ttrees]

Half the cost of a cheap 20" far Eastern machine, which the UK tech and my local shop owner couldn't sort out.
The scornful attitude regarding such, as this is what to expect if buying a new bandsaw.

It's a simple formula when you do things right, as the cat is outta the bag now.
Much to the distaste of everyone with vested interests, or indeed those other folks with soft spots for friends I might add, ooh and not forgetting those who don't want to know their machine is not as well designed as they thought it was.
That pretty much upsets everyone, bar those who've got that specific CO or specific Meber mentioned above, or Indeed larger Saggitario.

Everything else what's common, and not something with biscuit tin wheels,
is a compromise regarding wheel alignment,
and the best you'll find regarding that, is some pretending regarding co-planar adjustments,
and even at that, pure guesswork, as my scribing beam discovery proves.

Not to say folks can't Centaurolize their machine but on something lightweight,
in which that portion of the chassis is quite thin, especially so on the cheaper saws,
makes things a bit more involved, as the motor needs to be let into the machine to enable such
adjustments.
Saying this one could be lucky, and find the motor actually aligns with the upper wheel, fat chance of that really,
though should that be the case, I suggest buying a lottery ticket, as it's down to pot luck.

This is the very start of anything regarding honesty, as there is nothing known yet from anyone,
in regards to how much time a machine can run for with such misalignments,
and there's various forms of misalignmets at that too.
All this is doubly important for those who've not got a machine which is as close a copy
of the Italian recipe as say the RP machines.
i.e the hub for the belt being a pathetic bolted on lump of aluminium on a certain equivalently priced alternative,
or indeed the other Guinness poo's what's not adjustable whatsoever, with the jelly tires to hide things,
not that I've seen the wheels on that machine in detail, just worth mentioning, those two brands are not sticking to the recipe, so both in no way respectable construction,
and destined to return on a big boat.

All the best
Tom

 

[Sachakins]

Have you been cutting circles or curves on that regularly?
I find after a bit of circle or curve work my blade can wander. So I keep a couple just for curve cuts only.

If its being cutting fine previously, maybe your feed rate is too aggressive.
Try a dozen cuts, timing each one.
Vary the first 6, then check the cuts.
If there's a good one, try and replicate that same time several times.

 

[johnbb99]

Guides should not pinch the blade, correct. One bearing rotating means the blade is preferentially loaded that direction, however it may only just be touching the bearing to make it spin. Squaring ends of stock is not a job the band-saw is ideally suited to due to the flexibility of the blade, hence a circular saw type device is more traditionally used, table saw with sled, mitresaw etc.
..........................

Thanks, good points for me to check. I'm pretty sure the cut end comes back past the blade ok , but I will look again.
What I have /just/ done is to reduce the clearance of the bottom bearing guides, and this seems to have improved the accuracy [to square].
I don't have a table saw, and my mitre saw tends to rip splinters out of the face where the teeth exit.
I take your point that a bandsaw is not inherently suited to this purpose. (Unfortunately, the quality of my hand-sawing is no better!)
Thanks for your experience through the ownership of 3 machines.

 

[Padster]

Now this may or may not help, but I had had some small issues and ended up being recommended to look at Alex Snodgrass's video on YouTube.
I watched it's simple fool proof and worked for me - but maybe because mine wasn't correct to start with, that said I have a foolproof methodology now so am comfortable any error is now user error or a bad blade - and I have also heard as @Sachakins says that cutting curves and circles can cause issues with blades.

Padster

 

[Jacob]

Cut to a line rather than relying on fence. Band saws are not precision machines unless very large and with perfect blade and set up

 

[Sachakins]

This is one of afew bandsaw videos from of Alex snodgrass.