Bandsaw Issues?

[Delaney]

Hi All

I have an FB710 Felder bandaw 2023 model and seem to be having some set up issues.
This is my first bandsaw so not really sure what to expect. I've probably used it to for about an hour in total so far.

I noticed that the blade seems to flap a lot from side to side, when the machine is running and that there is some vibration in the machine when operational.
I increased the blade tension and that has improved the flapping but there is still some movement side to side and I don’t really want to tension the blade anymore.
Judging by everything I’ve seen and read, it is tight enough and could be in risk of being over tightened.

That brings me to the next part, which could be effecting the first.
The machine seems to vibrate somewhat when running and you can feel this by putting your hand on the table and you can see it, if you lower the blade guard to its lowest position (so when it's at it least stable).
If you put a cap head bolt on the table pointing up, you can see it vibrate. it doesn't move but you can see it vibrating.

Now I don’t want to imply here that there is something wrong but could those with experience, chime in with how their machine runs?

1) Does your bandsaw have slight vibration in it when running? Can you feel it by putting your hand on the table. It doesn't have to be much. It could be even the slightest amount.
I don't know if there should be any vibration or not, so this is my way of collecting data. As far as I can make out, two balanced wheels spinning shouldn’t produce any vibration at all but I also have to be realistic?

2) Does your blade move from side to slide, no matter how slight, when running? Can you for example hear it tapping the side guides and have you either not noticed and or if you have noticed, it's been so little that you don’t see it as an issue? Have you used the guides to take out this slight flapping? Which is one of the recommendations from Felder.
Again from my lack of knowledge, I would have thought that a blade should run straight if between two wheels

This might be down to blade tension but I’m starting to look around and ask wider questions because when I contacted Felder about the electronic brake and how to make it less aggressive, the tech seemed concerned with the blade wobble. Surprisingly I’ve been told to position the blade with the teeth hanging off the rubber and the back edge of the blade, a minimum of 3mm away from the centre of the tyre. This is the required postion for blades 20mm wide. If they are 16mm and under, then the blade should ride on the crown. I’m not disputing this as the manufacturers should know best but it's odd as my teeth are now pointing in, with the back of the blade, no longer parallel to the teeth. I’ve never seen this position advised before. Anyway, that's a side point.

Perhaps cranking the blade as far as I can will rule out the ’tension’ element but as I said, I think it's pretty damn taught as it is.

I’ll post some videos later on today.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Did you buy the saw new? The blade shouldn't move side to side at all when running, you should be able to "twang" it when stationary.

 

[Delaney]

Did you buy the saw new? The blade shouldn't move side to side at all when running, you should be able to "twang" it when stationary.

Yes bought from new.

When you say ‘shouldn’t move at all’ is this the experience you have with your bandsaw?
Not even in the slightest?
Not even a fraction?

Sorry Phil I don’t mean to be pedantic. Just trying to separate out those who ‘believe’ from those who ‘I just turned my bandsaw on and this is the result’ data.

A lot of us believe things that when we actually check for real, turn out to not be quite true.
It’s important I get this right so I know how to address Felder

 

[Spectric]

I have a BS400 on the wheel kit and it does vibrate but I fitted two jacking screws which when turned down to take a bit of the weight of the wheels that reduces it to just an acceptable machine vibration. I think you might learn by watching this video about bandsaw setup



or maybe buy these training videos from WWW by Peter Sefton who used to run a furniture making school

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/peter-sefton-ultimate-bandsaw-collection-set-of-3-dvds/

 

[Vulcan]

As a new bandsaw user some years ago, this video sorted out all the issues I had at the time.

 

[Vulcan]

You beat me to it. I’ll leave the video there though.

 

[Delaney]

I have a BS400 on the wheel kit and it does vibrate but I fitted two jacking screws which when turned down to take a bit of the weight of the wheels that reduces it to just an acceptable machine vibration. I think you might learn by watching this video about bandsaw setup



or maybe buy these training videos from WWW by Peter Sefton who used to run a furniture making school

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/peter-sefton-ultimate-bandsaw-collection-set-of-3-dvds/

Thanks Spectric

I have watched those videos by Peter and have spoken to Peter directly about the issue I mentioned here.
Peter’s videos do not go into how much a machine should vibrate and or how much blade wobble is acceptable, if any.
They are more generic ‘set-up’ videos, which are great, don’t get me wrong.
You comment Re: vibration and that you have some is the type of data I’m looking for.
If everyone tells me there bandsaw has ’some’ vibration, then I know it's a norm.

Thanks

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes bought from new.

When you say ‘shouldn’t move at all’ is this the experience you have with your bandsaw?
Not even in the slightest?
Not even a fraction?

Sorry Phil I don’t mean to be pedantic. Just trying to separate out those who ‘believe’ from those who ‘I just turned my bandsaw on and this is the result’ data.

A lot of us believe things that when we actually check for real, turn out to not be quite true.
It’s important I get this right so I know how to address Felder

I've only experience of smaller saws (with less potential tension) but I've never noticed any sideways movement.

 

[Delaney]

As a new bandsaw user some years ago, this video sorted out all the issues I had at the time.

Hi Vulcan.


Thanks for responding.

That’s an interesting video but does not address how much a bandsaw should or shouldn't vibrate and or how much blade flapping if any, is acceptable.

I’m not looking for ‘how to videos’ as I've watched all of them. I’m looking for real world feedback regarding users bandsaw behaviour, so I can get an understanding of bandsaws and how well they operate. Not the best way to set one up per say.

But I do appreciate your input and thank you for posting it.

 

[Delaney]

I've only experience of smaller saws (with less potential tension) but I've never noticed any sideways movement.

When you say "noticed", if you are near your saw, or going to it in the near future, could you double check?

Just focus on the blade passing through the table and see if see any swaying from side to side and or slight flapping.

Again, we all assume things that may turn out to be otherwise, once we actually focus on them. I just want to make double sure I’m getting the right data.

Thanks for commenting.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I'm just setting up an old Record RSBS14 - I've replaced the six guide bearings and the tyres, and the wheel bearings hopefully will arrive today but probably tomorrow. I thought I'd get away with doing them but it was feeling very slightly rough. I'll try to get some pictures when it's done - that's to all intents and purposes a rebuilt machine.

 

[Fitzroy]

This is my Axminster sbw4300 running. It’s quite noisy but no flapping and minimal vibration. It’s running a 13mm 6tpi m42 tuffsaw blade tensioned to 7 on the 0-10 tension scale, running with the middle of the blade on the middle of the wheel crown.

 

[Fitzroy]

Just looked up your bandsaw and its a complete beast! In my opinion is should be running butter smooth! There is a great video from mtmwood where he has received the same bandsaw and is putting it through it's paces. At the 14min mark there are some deep rip cuts and there is no noticeable blade vibration.

mtmwood makes awesome chopping boards and his videos are great, I have a union jack board that my wife bought me for my 40th.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes. My second and third word when I looked at that were "a brick".

 

[Spectric]

If everyone tells me there bandsaw has ’some’ vibration, then I know it's a norm.

I think that unless you have a large heavy cast iron bandsaw that vibration is inevitable because they are sheet metal fabrications and a lot lighter than they once were. You have two wheels rotating that are probably not perfectly balanced and not perfectly co planar so running more in a offset ellipse so all you can do is try and minimise the issue. If you do not have a wheel kit then sit the machine on blocks of wood, this will help but things will sort themselves out as you get more aquainted and experienced with the machine.

 

[Jacob]

.....

1) Does your bandsaw have slight vibration in it when running? Can you feel it by putting your hand on the table.

None at all, runs very quietly when not actually sawing. Unless there's a kink in the blade, after a bit of mishandling. Startrite 352.

It doesn't have to be much. It could be even the slightest amount.
I don't know if there should be any vibration or not, so this is my way of collecting data. As far as I can make out, two balanced wheels spinning shouldn’t produce any vibration at all but I also have to be realistic?

2) Does your blade move from side to slide, no matter how slight, when running? Can you for example hear it tapping the side guides and have you either not noticed and or if you have noticed, it's been so little that you don’t see it as an issue?

No "flapping" at all, runs very straight. Again - unless there's a kink in the blade, after a bit of mishandling or something

..... Surprisingly I’ve been told to position the blade with the teeth hanging off the rubber and the back edge of the blade, a minimum of 3mm away from the centre of the tyre. ....

I adjust mine ride more or less centrally on the tyres and have done since new a very long time ago.
Maybe set up your blade running centrally but with guides all set back and not touching the blade? Should be smooth and quiet! Then bring up the guides to be just clear of the blade both sides and behind, not actually touching. Or try a new blade?
I always have tension set to "low" unless a bit more pressure is needed for thicker stuff. And low speed. High speed and high tension makes it cut well, much noisier but no flapping or vibration!

PS perhaps try setting the guides not touching, then turn the wheels slowly by hand and watch for kinks as the blade goes past the guides? There should be no visible deviation.

 

[--Tom--]

I’d try a new blade - I don’t have any flutter side to side - on my own bandsaw I set the side guides a paper thickness from the blade so any side wobble would be noticeable hence being fairly confident

 

[Vulcan]

Hi Vulcan.


Thanks for responding.

That’s an interesting video but does not address how much a bandsaw should or shouldn't vibrate and or how much blade flapping if any, is acceptable.

I’m not looking for ‘how to videos’ as I've watched all of them. I’m looking for real world feedback regarding users bandsaw behaviour, so I can get an understanding of bandsaws and how well they operate. Not the best way to set one up per say.

But I do appreciate your input and thank you for posting it.

I just thought that maybe if you set your bandsaw up as suggested in the video that it might address some of your issues?
It helped me immensely when I set my bandsaw up using this information.

 

[RobinBHM]

Yes bought from new.

When you say ‘shouldn’t move at all’ is this the experience you have with your bandsaw?
Not even in the slightest?
Not even a fraction?

Sorry Phil I don’t mean to be pedantic. Just trying to separate out those who ‘believe’ from those who ‘I just turned my bandsaw on and this is the result’ data.

A lot of us believe things that when we actually check for real, turn out to not be quite true.
It’s important I get this right so I know how to address Felder

my thoughts:

1) check the top wheel and the bottom wheel for runout -ie have a dial gauge against the wheel and rotate it by hand
on a new machine it should be pretty close

2) if you are using a blade as wide as say 20mm you might find a modern welded bandsaw is unable to tension it sufficiently

3)if you have a narrower blade try that and set it up on the crown -that will help to determine if the blade position or size is the culprit

4) a new bandsaw should not have vibration -almost none at all

 

[Delaney]

I think that unless you have a large heavy cast iron bandsaw that vibration is inevitable because they are sheet metal fabrications and a lot lighter than they once were. You have two wheels rotating that are probably not perfectly balanced and not perfectly co planar so running more in a offset ellipse so all you can do is try and minimise the issue. If you do not have a wheel kit then sit the machine on blocks of wood, this will help but things will sort themselves out as you get more aquainted and experienced with the machine.

Thank you for the tips and I think your appraisal sounds pretty fair.
I’ll take some videos tomorrow when back in the shop and post them here.