Axminster AWFS 18 how does it compare to a Hegner?

[Claymore]

How do the old treadle scroll saws compare to modern electric ones...... are they as accurate/smooth and were the old blades any good again compared to the latest kit?
Just curious as a newbie to scrolls you have to learn somewhere and i guess some of you guys were around when they first came out? 9-)
Cheers
Brian

 

[Walney Col]

...you have to learn somewhere and i guess some of you guys were around when they first came out? 9-)
Cheers
Brian

Ouch #-o

 

[scrimper]

How do the old treadle scroll saws compare to modern electric ones...... are they as accurate/smooth and were the old blades any good again compared to the latest kit?
Just curious as a newbie to scrolls you have to learn somewhere and i guess some of you guys were around when they first came out? 9-)
Cheers
Brian

Put it this way, once you have used a decent motor powered fretsaw you would not wish to go back to a treadle machine! I have a Hobbies A1 treadle machine and although in it's day it was a revelation after using a hand-frame a motor powered saw is supremely better in terms of power, speed of use, accuracy and ability to cut thicker material. Having said this it was excellent in it's day and many fret-workers did brilliant work with them when they were the thing to use.

 

[ardenwoodcraft]

I suppose us Excalibur owners should just go and sit in a corner and mutter into our beer then??? :-#

 

[scrimper]

I think the patent run out some years ago, if there ever was one.
This treadle scrollsaw looks like the early Hegner/AWFS18 parallel motion with a tensioning thread.

Now were talking I have one of those but I think that first patent for a true parallel motion saw was granted to Hobbies for there Royal fret saw this is a picture of mine.

I am very envious of that saw, the Royal was first introduced in 1899 about the same time as the first A1 machine (my particular A1 dates from the 1920's) How did you come by the Royal machine? (my A1 originally belonged to my grandfather)

 

[scrimper]

I suppose us Excalibur owners should just go and sit in a corner and mutter into our beer then??? :-#

Well this thread is about the Axminster AWFS18 saw but like all threads is susceptible to thread drift (not complaining any input is interesting) Excalibur owners are fully entitled and welcome to join in the chat, after all we are all fretworkers whatever machine we use.

 

[jonluv]

Used a treadle saw in the late forties (1947) remember that I used to sweat with concentration but no pain in legs you really had to have a good grip on the wood as the blades were savage

It was very slow but really satisfying to use, it seemed to be easy to create inlay but perhaps that's just in my memories

My Father used to bring exotic woods home from work , he was a Joiner at John Browns Shipyard making the furniture
for the cabins

My Uncle motorised the saw I think in the Fifties using a Singer motor, he worked for Singer in Clydebank so perhaps it was a borrowed motor

Used it off and on till about 1956 when the army called when returning to civy street it had gone

Would love to try one now!!

 

[ardenwoodcraft]

I suppose us Excalibur owners should just go and sit in a corner and mutter into our beer then??? :-#

Well this thread is about the Axminster AWFS18 saw but like all threads is susceptible to thread drift (not complaining any input is interesting) Excalibur owners are fully entitled and welcome to join in the chat, after all we are all fretworkers whatever machine we use.

Thank you, I did start with an Axminster AWVFS scrollsaw when I started out before moving on to my Excalibur.

Wonder when the Chinese will get round to cloning Excaliburs?

I am actually quite interested in the comparison of the Hegner and the AWFS18, its amazing how such similar looking machines can be so different. And surprising that Hegner are still making these in Germany not China.

 

[scrimper]

My Uncle motorised the saw I think in the Fifties using a Singer motor, he worked for Singer in Clydebank so perhaps it was a borrowed motor

Could it have been a Hobbies motor conversion kit? Hobbies Ltd did actually market a proper motor conversion kit for the A1 machine for several years.

 

[powertools]

How do the old treadle scroll saws compare to modern electric ones...... are they as accurate/smooth and were the old blades any good again compared to the latest kit?
Just curious as a newbie to scrolls you have to learn somewhere and i guess some of you guys were around when they first came out? 9-)
Cheers
Brian

You can't compare using a modern saw to a treadle saw using a treadle saw is a bit like trying to do a pencil drawing while jogging down the road, but that could be something to do with the fact that by your calculation I am about 125 years old.
I use a modern saw but also collect vintage ones.

 

[powertools]

I think the patent run out some years ago, if there ever was one.
This treadle scrollsaw looks like the early Hegner/AWFS18 parallel motion with a tensioning thread.

Now were talking I have one of those but I think that first patent for a true parallel motion saw was granted to Hobbies for there Royal fret saw this is a picture of mine.

I am very envious of that saw, the Royal was first introduced in 1899 about the same time as the first A1 machine (my particular A1 dates from the 1920's) How did you come by the Royal machine? (my A1 originally belonged to my grandfather)

Sorry to have helped your thread to go off track but in answer to your question I came across the the Royal on ebay just before last Christmas, it was about 200 miles away from me and was collection only but I emailed the seller to see if he would pack it up and send it and it turned out that just after Christmas he was going to be making a journey that took him within about 15 miles from me and he would bring the saw with him. I did win the auction at just over £39 so we arranged to meet at a truck stop just off the M1.
The saw is 1 of 6 all different models made by Hobbies I now have and I still have to blame Martin for getting me started with this collection after he posted a link to a Hobbies Victory for sale not far from home that I purchased.

 

[scrimper]

Sorry to have helped your thread to go off track but in answer to your question I came across the the Royal on ebay just before last Christmas, it was about 200 miles away from me and was collection only but I emailed the seller to see if he would pack it up and send it and it turned out that just after Christmas he was going to be making a journey that took him within about 15 miles from me and he would bring the saw with him. I did win the auction at just over £39 so we arranged to meet at a truck stop just off the M1.
The saw is 1 of 6 all different models made by Hobbies I now have and I still have to blame Martin for getting me started with this collection after he posted a link to a Hobbies Victory for sale not far from home that I purchased.

Don't worry about thread drift especially if the subject drifted to is about Hobbies Fretsaws! I am now even more envious now I hear you have a collection of Treadle machines including a Victory, I have never seen a Victory in the flesh but it looks to be a really sturdy machine, any chance of you posting some pictures of your machines?

When my grandfather passed away in 1968 he left a Hobbies Imperial machine, but at the time I did not have room for itt plus being a young lad I was more interested in the ladies and I let the saw go for scrap! I have always regretted that decision.

 

[powertools]

First to come are the Victory and A1.

Next the Gem

Followed by the Briton

Next was this box of bits

That turned into this that I think is an Imperial

And finally the Royal

I do also have an earlier version of the A1 but that is in bits at the moment.

Funny thing is I have turned up most of these saws during my search for a Hobbies Companion lathe with the fret saw attachment and as yet have not found the lathe.

 

[finneyb]

If you catch your knee on the Gem or Briton flywheel I suspect the neighbourhood would know about it.

Brian

 

[scrimper]

Thanks for the pictures they are very interesting, my favourites are the Victory and the Imperial. The Victory looks to be very sturdy!
I am a bit dubious of that block of wood that is used to mount the saw on top of the legs on the imperial? I have always assumed that this part was a metal casting like all the others, is it possible that it was used to replace a missing or damaged part?

The imperial that my Grandfather owned also incorporated a drilling attachment on the right hand side powered by a second drive belt.

 

[powertools]

Thanks for the pictures they are very interesting, my favourites are the Victory and the Imperial. The Victory looks to be very sturdy!
I am a bit dubious of that block of wood that is used to mount the saw on top of the legs on the imperial? I have always assumed that this part was a metal casting like all the others, is it possible that it was used to replace a missing or damaged part?

The imperial that my Grandfather owned also incorporated a drilling attachment on the right hand side powered by a second drive belt.

I,m pleased that you find the saws interesting. If I had to choose a favorite it would be the Royal the Victory is the most impressive but it is very hard work to use and I can't understand what it would have been made for it has a 26" throat depth so in theory you could cut out in the centre of a panel 4 foot wide but there is no way you could support that on the table and reach the treadle with your feet. The Royal however has a true parallel motion and is a joy to use and is a nice design.
I think that all the saws are important in their own way as they show the development of the modern scroll saw and the Gem is the worst of the bunch but would have been Hobbies best selling saw due to it's lower price and with the complexity of most of the patterns also sold by Hobbies at the same time most users would have been happy with the results much the same situation arises today in that there are a range of saws available at different prices. It would be unfair the compare the Royal to the Gem but I expect that buyers in those days didn't expect them to perform the same.
You may be right about the wooden top on the Imperial I don't know that is how it came and the wood looks very old but may not be original from what I have been able to find out I think that the drill may have been an extra that could have been purchased for both the Imperial and the A1 but once again I am not sure.
As time allows I am trying to find out more about the development of the Hobbies saws and fill in the gaps of the ones I don't have.

 

[scrimper]

Thanks for the pictures they are very interesting, my favourites are the Victory and the Imperial. The Victory looks to be very sturdy!
I am a bit dubious of that block of wood that is used to mount the saw on top of the legs on the imperial? I have always assumed that this part was a metal casting like all the others, is it possible that it was used to replace a missing or damaged part?

The imperial that my Grandfather owned also incorporated a drilling attachment on the right hand side powered by a second drive belt.

I,m pleased that you find the saws interesting. If I had to choose a favorite it would be the Royal the Victory is the most impressive but it is very hard work to use and I can't understand what it would have been made for it has a 26" throat depth so in theory you could cut out in the centre of a panel 4 foot wide but there is no way you could support that on the table and reach the treadle with your feet. The Royal however has a true parallel motion and is a joy to use and is a nice design.
I think that all the saws are important in their own way as they show the development of the modern scroll saw and the Gem is the worst of the bunch but would have been Hobbies best selling saw due to it's lower price and with the complexity of most of the patterns also sold by Hobbies at the same time most users would have been happy with the results much the same situation arises today in that there are a range of saws available at different prices. It would be unfair the compare the Royal to the Gem but I expect that buyers in those days didn't expect them to perform the same.
You may be right about the wooden top on the Imperial I don't know that is how it came and the wood looks very old but may not be original from what I have been able to find out I think that the drill may have been an extra that could have been purchased for both the Imperial and the A1 but once again I am not sure.
As time allows I am trying to find out more about the development of the Hobbies saws and fill in the gaps of the ones I don't have.

I think the Imperial came as standard with the drill attachment, perhaps the one you have was modified when that wooden part was fitted and the drill part was removed! The A1 could be bought with or without the drill unit but I don't think it could be retro fitted. Just before the WW2 the A1 was selling at 47/6 (£2.37) or 65/- (£3.25) with a fitted drill so about a third of the cost extra! £1 was quite a lot of money in 1938 when a decent wage would have been between £1 - £2 per week!
FWIW the Imperial machine (inc drill) was selling for 90/- (£4.50) in 1938.

The Gem was introduced back in 1928 and original had the same cast metal tripod/legs base as the A1 but gradually over the years this was change to pressed steel parts to save production costs.

Hobbies also made a Triumph machine, a bit like the A1 but with a better rectangular table and it ran more smoothly on ball bearings.

Regarding your comment on the long throat on the victory, this would have been useful when cutting long narrow parts such as the sides of ornate frames that Hobbies were so fond of in their earlier fretwork designs.

 

[powertools]

As I said when I posted the pictures I think that it is an Imperial but there is no name on it so it may well not be but I have been unable to find any other model that is similar to it.
It may well be a saw that has had a hard life and the drill is missing and the top has been replaced with the wooden top it now has or I think it may be possible that things changed during the war years and this may be a saw built to a lower spec in the same way that the quality of the Gem lowered over the years.
I know that the present Hobbies company used to have a museum of items from the original Hobbies company but I don't know if they still do I will phone them and find out and also see if they have records of changes made to the saws over the years.
The Triumph along with the Companion lathe are the last 2 items I am looking for to complete my collection.

 

[scrimper]

I don't know for sure but I have a feeling they lost the museum, when they moved from Dereham to Raveningham in 2008. I understand that the company has changed hands, as you are probably aware it was started again back in 1968 by Ivan Stroulger and later run by his sons (Ivan Stroulger passed away in 2009 at the ripe age of 92)

I am fairly certain that the saw in question is an Imperial, to my knowledge they never made any other model with that type of stand.

They also made a Norfolk 1904 and later a Suffolk model both very sturdy and very similar to your victory machine.