Auto Switch for dust extractor

[RogerS]

The weak point on the first earlier design was the push-buttons on the handset which failed quite quickly.

Did you try the "liquid soap + 4B pencil" trick? It's kept our Sony bathroom tranny going for several decades.

To be honest, I'm not sure I even really need the pencil: a good, no-glycerine, clean seems to work most of the time. Other people use that conductive silver paint for mending heated car windows (on the membrane pimples), but I haven't had as much success with it. I've also gently abraded the pimples with wet+dry.

Obviously none of the above are any good if the chip dies. It annoys me that Maplin won't sell the controllers separately - all that fuss about eco- friendliness and then encouraging you to throw out perfectly good controller modules when the remote breaks.


E.

Liquid soap? A tranny in the bathroom? :shock:

Not heard of that one. What's the process? Clean the contacts, dry and then rub a 4B pencil on?

Roger

 

[Eric The Viking]

What's the process? Clean the contacts, dry and then rub a 4B pencil on?

Pretty much.

Plain hand soap is pretty devoid of nasties, and the contacts are usually a graphited rubber. Dry well before reassembly.

If that doesn't work rub a soft pencil into the rubber bumps, clean a bit with kitchen paper and try again.

If *that* doesn't work, abrade, ditto.

Or use silver paint.

You can usually get them going again. Works with TV remotes too.

E.

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

Alan,

I'm in the process of remote-ing my own DX. It has an NVR that I'm ditching. It's a bit temperamental starting anyway, as the NVR has trouble latching in.

Instead I'm just using a single pole rotary switch from Toolstation. I stripped the radio-controlled remote down to the circuit board, and modified the switch box to fit it inside, alongside the rotary one.

So the rotary switch kills the DX (but doesn't completely isolate it), for bag changes, etc., and I'll put a big warning label on to warn that you must isolate it properly before trying to clear blockages.

I'm very surprised that the modules you have forget their programming: the ones I got (Maplins) had two little 4-way rotary switches, giving 16 combinations (there are four send channels on the remote, and four sets of on-off buttons). I haven't finished the mod yet, but I'll solder links on the pads where the switches connected to the board. The switching is done by a 3kW-capable relay, so should cope fine with the DX (it's not big - 10A max I think).

I looked at Bob's DOL starter circuit - it should handle the current with more leeway, but mine will fit on my DX better! Pics when I get a moment.

E.

This actually gave me an idea on how to solve the problem im having. Using a 12v remote switch module I could use this with a relay that would switch on the machine (with some rewiring) I could use this with a battery so when I leave the shop and Isolate the whole lot (which can be a few times a day) I wouldn't have to keep reprogramming.

Saying that if the ones you say work as they do then I wouldn't need batteries. I don't like maplins they seem to over charge, are these modules a reasonable price?

If your removing the DOL are you not removing the thermal overload protection or are you rewiring that into your mod?

I have 3 machines I wish to remote start in the shop. 2 extractors and an air cleaner (when built). Only the big extractor has the DOL/NVR.

 

[RogerS]

I really think that you are over-complicating things. Why not buy a set of these...on offer at the moment. http://www.maplin.co.uk/remote-controll ... ack-348217 for £19.99. They're what I use...one for the large Axminster 2200 chip collector, one for the 110v transformer, one for the air cleaner and the last for a Camvac. In fact, I've just ordered another set!

 

[9fingers]

My original circuit was for an industrial sized extractor, that needed a 16amp power feed and so could not be directly controlled from a 13 amp switch.
And Yes I retained the motor overload circuitry.

Bob

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

I really think that you are over-complicating things. Why not buy a set of these...on offer at the moment. http://www.maplin.co.uk/remote-controll ... ack-348217 for £19.99. They're what I use...one for the large Axminster 2200 chip collector, one for the 110v transformer, one for the air cleaner and the last for a Camvac. In fact, I've just ordered another set!

That is basically what i have but they lose there channel assignment once power is killed to the circuit the sockets are on. Are these the ones that will remember which channel if it loses power?

Bob I could see you kept the protection, my question was to Eric with his replacement to a rotary switch. Ill be doing what you said Bob one I find or build something that will not lose its memory once its lost power.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I really think that you are over-complicating things. Why not buy a set of these...on offer at the moment. http://www.maplin.co.uk/remote-controll ... ack-348217 for £19.99. They're what I use...one for the large Axminster 2200 chip collector, one for the 110v transformer, one for the air cleaner and the last for a Camvac. In fact, I've just ordered another set!

That is exactly what I'm using, but it won't work upstream of an NVR switch. So I have to mod the DX, and can fit a module into the switch case (just about).

[edit] I've just read Alan's post and it looks as though Maplins have changed the design since I bought mine.

Mine has a slider switch on the transmitter (for one of four groups) and there are two sets of tiny, screwdriver-turned switches on the back of the receiver. One does the group and the other the individual module channel within the group. So theoretically, one transmitter could control 16 different items, but you'd have to keep changing the groups of four with the slider.

Incidentally, it often needs two pushes of the button to get it to fire up. I think the first one 'wakes up' either the receiver or the transmitter.

I'm a bit tied up right now, but I will take some snaps later.

 

[RogerS]

I really think that you are over-complicating things. Why not buy a set of these...on offer at the moment. http://www.maplin.co.uk/remote-controll ... ack-348217 for £19.99. They're what I use...one for the large Axminster 2200 chip collector, one for the 110v transformer, one for the air cleaner and the last for a Camvac. In fact, I've just ordered another set!

That is basically what i have but they lose there channel assignment once power is killed to the circuit the sockets are on. Are these the ones that will remember which channel if it loses power?

Channels are set by wee preset dials....so yes, they do keep their settings.

 

[studders]

Channels are set by wee preset dials....so yes, they do keep their settings.

Splendid, will order a set and use the ones I have at the mo in the house.

 

[powertools]

How come has this thread become so complex.
OP was after an auto switch and was given the answer on about post 5.
About half way down on page 2 he comes back and says that he has purchased said item and it works a treat.
What is the point of a remote control socket to operate a dust collector when you need one hand to turn it on rather than having both hands on the tool and the vac turns itself on. You may as well flick the switch on the vac by hand and then line up the tool and do the job.

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

How come has this thread become so complex.
OP was after an auto switch and was given the answer on about post 5.
About half way down on page 2 he comes back and says that he has purchased said item and it works a treat.
What is the point of a remote control socket to operate a dust collector when you need one hand to turn it on rather than having both hands on the tool and the vac turns itself on. You may as well flick the switch on the vac by hand and then line up the tool and do the job.

Because you can not remote start a standard DOL. To remote start using one of these sockets you need a switch on the machine that you can keep on, as a DOL or NVR switch has momentary switches things need to get complex as just replacing the DOL means you lose protection. As auto on systems when you start a tool costs well over £350 once you have hooked up all the tools its in our benefit to throw ideas and knowledge to get what we require within £50, plus, some of us enjoy playing with electronics. We have hijacked the thread but as the OP has his answer already, does that matter?

The dust extractor isn't next to every machine so a remote control saves walking down one end of the shop and back again. Personally when using the ones I brought I have been turning the extraction on while im stood at the machine, then turning the machine on so the 2 hand 1 hand thing isn't a problem.

 

[powertools]

How come has this thread become so complex.
OP was after an auto switch and was given the answer on about post 5.
About half way down on page 2 he comes back and says that he has purchased said item and it works a treat.
What is the point of a remote control socket to operate a dust collector when you need one hand to turn it on rather than having both hands on the tool and the vac turns itself on. You may as well flick the switch on the vac by hand and then line up the tool and do the job.

Because you can not remote start a standard DOL. To remote start using one of these sockets you need a switch on the machine that you can keep on, as a DOL or NVR switch has momentary switches things need to get complex as just replacing the DOL means you lose protection. As auto on systems when you start a tool costs well over £350 once you have hooked up all the tools its in our benefit to throw ideas and knowledge to get what we require within £50, plus, some of us enjoy playing with electronics. We have hijacked the thread but as the OP has his answer already, does that matter?

The dust extractor isn't next to every machine so a remote control saves walking down one end of the shop and back again. Personally when using the ones I brought I have been turning the extraction on while im stood at the machine, then turning the machine on so the 2 hand 1 hand thing isn't a problem.

:?
Why not start a new therad about playing with electronics rather than destroy a thread that gives people a simple answer to a simple question.

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

Thats one way to look at it but we are talking about also getting them with dust extractors fitted with NVR and DOL's a remote system. So in this thread your are getting info on how to make an extractor with a simple switch, remote switched as well as one thats with a NVR/DOL. So rather a member having to read two threads there only having to read one, the threads title don't specify which type of extractor switch! Them wishing for the simple answer for the non DOL extractor can stop reading the rest of the thread after post 5.

If the mods feel differently please split the thread.

 

[wcndave]

for my part I have not been able to follow / understand this thread since it turned electrical, so would have preferred 2 threads - however i am happy to ignore this thread instead ;-)

 

[Eric The Viking]

Well, it IS an electrical matter -- that can't be avoided.

I think the thing is, if you're uncomfortable doing DIY in this area, being safe rather than sorry is sensible. OTOH, the cost savings are substantial, compared to having to buy plug-together bits that actually work together correctly.

Here's the original question:

Has anybody got any ideas on how to make a switch or purchase (not the axminster one as way too expensive) that will start up a portable dust extraction unit when a power tool is turned on. I see from looking on the web that these are available in the states for under £20 but of course they wont work over here. Im looking for something that will send power to the dust extractor once you power up the power tool.

Making a switch to do exactly that is what we've discussed, also a variant (remote control) for extractors without a DOL starter.

So I'd say we've stayed pretty much on topic, actually.

 

[wcndave]

Well, it was about auto start, eg like the power strips that have that built in, for under £20.
now it's DOL, Rotary, DX, NVR - which i have no clue what any of that means.

just shows how much i know :?

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

Well, it was about auto start, eg like the power strips that have that built in, for under £20.
now it's DOL, Rotary, DX, NVR - which i have no clue what any of that means.

just shows how much i know :?

Now then I wonder. The ones Axi sell require you put a part on the motor casing that "detects" the magnetic field. I bet this is just a reed switch and can't see why we couldn't device such a system using a reed switch and relay at a fraction of the cost?

I bet in the "control" box there is the normal safety protection circuits, a transformer that supplies the reed switches with 12v and a relay or set of that switch the power to the DX on and off.

DX did stump me. I did think Dust Extractor but disregarded it as I thought that would be DE.

EDIT: Just looked at the axi model and it has a socket which suggests that if you have a DOL/NVR that you would need to rewire or bypass it. If bypass then I bet all the thermal and overload protection is also in the control box.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Hudson Carpentry

Probbaly a Hall effect sensor so some electronics will be needed as well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor

I don't think a reed switch will work well.

Pete

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

Interesting thanks Pete!

 

[Eric The Viking]

Oddly, I'm just about to replace a reed switch on the dishwasher. The old one still works, but I'm not sure how well. For the Axy thing, I'd say Hall effect too, as they have an op-amp built-in (usually) and will work over a longer range.

E. (off to Maplins, Grrr.)