Are radial arm saws not mainstream these days?

[LancsRick]

Without a doubt one of the most useful tools I own is my Dewalt 1251 RAS, a tool I learnt to use as a kid at home as my old man has one. Reading around on the Internet on best ways to true up pieces, I ended up getting sidetracked by the sheer number of articles on RAS in general, how they're awful inaccurate tools, deathtraps, etc.

I realise that for rips a table saw is better, but for crosscut, mitres, ease of adjustment, and the odd bit of ripping, I find mine brilliant. I use a positive rake blade for crosscuts (which apparently, even with bite limiters means I should have lost a limb by now according to many people), and have done numerous rips over the years without incident.

What's the view on here for versatility these days, is a RAS still king for most things except ripping? Or am I a dinosaur in my views?! (only in my views, no sniping about me being a dinosaur generally 8) )

 

[deema]

Well, I'm a dinosaur as well. I've often on this forum supported anyone who thought of a RAS, as I agree, after about 30mins to true a RAS up it remains completely accurate. I have a Wadkin, I think their lack of popularity is the space they take up.....there not small!

 

[shed9]

If the tool works and is used properly, it is no more dangerous than any other in the workshop in my opinion. They do scare me but if one comes along at the right price and I have room for it, I'd happily add one to my shop. A little fear in a machine is no bad thing.

 

[marcros]

i had one and liked it, but the space that it took up was more than I could justify, so it had to go.

 

[custard]

What's the view on here for versatility these days, is a RAS still king for most things except ripping?

No it's not "king", if indeed it ever was, and it's certainly not versatile. "King" these days is a panel or dimension saw with a big sliding table for full sheets.

The problem with a RAS is that extraction is terrible, which these days is a must, and it's far too heavy for site work. So you're left with a one trick pony (limited width cross cutting) that takes up a huge amount of space for what it does. Professionally I've seen a few used in joinery workshops and timber yards (Surrey Timbers have one, but it sits on a 20' table), however for hobbyists and site work there are now better alternatives. But if someone falls into the category of limited budget but lots of space, and a good RAS comes along with accurate bearings, then why not.

 

[woodpig]

A mate works in a D&T dept in a School and they use a RAS saw every day, they won't even have a table saw on site due to the potential dangers involved. Their words not mine before anyone goes off on one. They cut sheets down to size with a track saw.

 

[sawdust1]

Had my Dewalt for 30 years and it was second hand when i brought it.
It is the most used machine in the workshop.
What other machine cuts tenons so well.
Never done rips with it as i have a table saw for that job.
Chop saw for on site work and angle cuts in the workshop, as the Dewalt takes time to set up for angle cuts.

 

[wolfey]

I have to agree with Custard,
I bought one about 15yrs ago for £100 as the guy said it was broken and didn't cut very well! when we set it up and made the first cut (almost lost some fingers) we realised he had put the blade on the wrong way round!!! Hence it just burnt its way through the wood and wanted to pull all the time!

Back then the RAS and a big old 8m long wall saw was our main cutting equipment. But as time moves on the wall saw was taken over by the 3.2m panel saw and RAS by a large modern mitre saw.
Both taking up much less space and giving more versatility and accuracy than the previous saw's.

Moving on the CNC has made the panel saw almost redundant and now mostly gets used for just cross cutting (as Custard said).

BUT !! the trusty old RAS still lives out side under a large canopy in our sawmill for rough cutting fresh sawn green hardwood to rough length!
Once the main cross cut machine when I first set the joinery shop up and still 15yrs on has a job in our mill!!! Not bad for a hundred quid!!
If you find one cheap then buy it! just make shore the blade is on the correct way!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[LancsRick]

Sounds like I need to look at modern mitre saws if this ever gives up the ghost, I definitely have some preconceptions about them!

I understand the love for table and panel saws, but I can't quite reconcile the argument about space in my mind. My RAS takes up about 3ftx3ft in my workshop as a footprint, and with a couple of roller stands I can happily put 8'x4' sheets through it. As far as I know with table saws I'd need much more clearance in my workshop as I'd have to rotate the entire machine to keep the board in the same orientation and do cross/rip cuts, whereas on the RAS I can just rotate the tool. I feel like I'm missing something here!

I should say that I'm talking about a single garage as a workshop here, not site or a barn .

 

[Adam9453]

If you're working in a single garage then probably the best combination would be a decent track saw (festool ts55 for instance) plus a nice big sliding compound mitre saw. That pretty allows you to do any sheet dimensioning you could need.
I think the general rule is, if the space is small move the tool, if the space is big then move the wood.
However its worth noting that some machines also require two people to operate safely (when loading/processing large heavy sheets) whereas if you are just moving the tool then you can work pretty much single handed all the time (helps if you're strong though).

 

[wallace]

My RAS is one of my favourite machines to use. I've got a trenching head for it and its great for tennons.

 

[Rhossydd]

Another factor in their fall from fashion is cost.
A DeWalt RAS now costs £2.5k+, few stores stock them and there seem to be no advertising for them.
When I bought mine over 25 years ago they were much cheaper in comparison with other tools and every magazine had adverts for them.

 

[Adam9453]

That is a beautiful machine wallace, they don't make em like that anymore!! 8)

 

[Jelly]

What's the view on here for versatility these days, is a RAS still king for most things except ripping?

No it's not "king", if indeed it ever was, and it's certainly not versatile. "King" these days is a panel or dimension saw with a big sliding table for full sheets.

The problem with a RAS is that extraction is terrible, which these days is a must, and it's far too heavy for site work. So you're left with a one trick pony (limited width cross cutting) that takes up a huge amount of space for what it does. Professionally I've seen a few used in joinery workshops and timber yards (Surrey Timbers have one, but it sits on a 20' table), however for hobbyists and site work there are now better alternatives. But if someone falls into the category of limited budget but lots of space, and a good RAS comes along with accurate bearings, then why not.

The RAS, always has, and always will have a place, more or less where you've said.
Working with big sectional sizes, or long lengths of wide (solid wood) boards is what it excels at, CNC Crosscut's have replaced it in manufacturing, just like it largely replaced pendulum saws (but not entirely, because lengthing whole logs is still easier with a huge pendulum saw).

The dimension/panel saw isn't as versatile in absolute terms as the RAS, but it better suits the needs of modern woodworking where panel products reign supreme... I don't think any type of saw can be "King", unless you specify a sub-type of woodworking.

RAS extraction is actually OK if you have a built in hood at the back, close fitting guard with extraction and high volume of air movement, not unlike a mitresaw.

My suspicion is that the type of person who would get best use from the multitude of things it can do is less likely to be around, as a machine which can Crosscut, cut tennons and compound mitres in large gang cuts is most useful in a small joiners shop where operations are done sequentially by one or two people; by and large that method of working is not massively profitable, so a move to machines which need fewer or no tool changes, and more people has reduced its usefulness commercially to a big crosscut.

Hobbyists being a varied lot, I don't think you can lump us all in together, I now have access to a decent sized panel saw which I scarcely use, and would much much rather have access to an RAS, as it suits me better.

That is a beautiful machine wallace, they don't make em like that anymore!! 8)

Oddly enough, they do... Not quite so beautiful as Wallace's one, but just as well made!

 

[Adam9453]

That is a beautiful machine wallace, they don't make em like that anymore!! 8)

Oddly enough, they do... Not quite so beautiful as Wallace's one, but just as well made!

My comment was regarding the beauty, you can get the quality by paying the money but no one that I know of makes machines with beautiful detailing like the older machines.

 

[Jelly]

That is a beautiful machine wallace, they don't make em like that anymore!! 8)

Oddly enough, they do... Not quite so beautiful as Wallace's one, but just as well made!

My comment was regarding the beauty, you can get the quality by paying the money but no one that I know of makes machines with beautiful detailing like the older machines.

I know, and more's the pity that they don't!

I do find it interesting that the basic design (including the replaceable silver steel rods which form the ways!) That made that made those machines so good, has survived with minimal alteration for a little over 80 years.

Ironically, for the most famous of the UK companies who produced the generation of really beautiful machines, Wadkin in buying Bursgreen for their range featuring "lightweight steel construction", signaled the death knell of that era of wonderful cast machines... By demonstrating that you could make an excellent machine whilst cost/production engineering it to remove any excess cost or effort in making them, unfortunately a swathe of companies who took thst idea and ran with it whilst interested in excellence rather less than bare adequacy have altered the market forever.

 

[Adam9453]

Accountants run design these days as opposed to engineers and craftsmen. Subsequently their pride is based on saving money and increasing profits rather than producing an excellent machine to be proud of

 

[Selwyn]

I've got a dewalt 1751. Luckily I've got plenty of sheds as a farmer and so will never be short of space for it. It is too big for my woodshop really but I do like it because crosscutting and trenching/tenons is easy on it

 

[LancsRick]

That is a beautiful machine wallace, they don't make em like that anymore!! 8)

+1, that is fantastic!

...snip...

It sounds like the reason I'm a bit baffled is that I fit into the niche you just described. I don't have the space for multiple saws (as nice as a table and panel saw would be!), I've build an extraction hood for it, and I'm a hobbyist that dabbles on my own in a garage.

Another factor in their fall from fashion is cost.
A DeWalt RAS now costs £2.5k+, few stores stock them and there seem to be no advertising for them.
When I bought mine over 25 years ago they were much cheaper in comparison with other tools and every magazine had adverts for them.

Ouch! Picked mine up second hand for about £120, and put £50 of bits into it, and an afternoon cleaning it and setting it up.

 

[Claud1]

Wouldn't be without mine.