architect fees

[joinerb]

what fee would an architect expect for a project worth £160m

 

[MikeG.]

Hmmmmmm,

that's an interesting first post on a woodworking forum!!

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I would refer you to the RIBA website for guidance. Fees will be based on the amount of input required........for instance, if it is a D&B job it tends to be that the architect has no site-presence requirement, and fees will be correspiondingly lower.

If you know it is a £160 million pound job, then it has already been designed and tendered............so I am guessing that it is only a working drawings package. You might find that the fee is in the range of 3 to 5% of the contract, as a ball-park figure.

Now, tell us about your workshop and woodworking background.

Mike

 

[big soft moose]

Hmmmmmm,

that's an interesting first post on a woodworking forum!!

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I would refer you to the RIBA website for guidance. Fees will be based on the amount of input required........for instance, if it is a D&B job it tends to be that the architect has no site-presence requirement, and fees will be correspiondingly lower.

If you know it is a £160 million pound job, then it has already been designed and tendered............so I am guessing that it is only a working drawings package. You might find that the fee is in the range of 3 to 5% of the contract, as a ball-park figure.

Now, tell us about your workshop and woodworking background.

Mike

so 5% of 160 million - thats 8 million notes :shock:

somewhat hijacking the thread - are all architect fees based on a percentage or do some charge a flat fee ?

swimbo and i are thinking of self building in the next couple of years , and while we realise that it is unwise to try and do without an architect I would like to avoid spending the GNP of uraguay in the process.

 

[MikeG.]

so 5% of 160 million - thats 8 million notes :shock:

somewhat hijacking the thread - are all architect fees based on a percentage or do some charge a flat fee ?

swimbo and i are thinking of self building in the next couple of years , and while we realise that it is unwise to try and do without an architect I would like to avoid spending the GNP of uraguay in the process.

The percentage figure is normally just a guide and would be subject to negotiation........but, and this is the danger of answering the original silly question.........it is perfectly possible that a contract of that size could involve 25 people drawing for 18 months or more, plus lots of meetings by managers etc. That isn't a one-man band type job!!!

In a commercial practice a few years ago I worked on a commercial scheme that was worth 90 million, and our fees were 1.2 million, and we didn't make a penny out of it.

On the domestic side, such as you are proposing, the fees would generally be a result of a fee bid (as would the commercial), but would often be a fixed fee. I have never worked on a percentage.

You might budget fees of £4000 or £6000ish, I guess, without having any site supervision. If an architect is administering the contract (which means doing regular site visits, valuations, payments to the contractor etc.), you could bargain on the fees going up to say £30,000. These are just wild guesses given that there is no design.......just to give you an idea of what to allow in a budget.

Hope this helps......

....looks like our original poster wasn't too interested in the answer!!

Mike

 

[big soft moose]

so 5% of 160 million - thats 8 million notes :shock:

somewhat hijacking the thread - are all architect fees based on a percentage or do some charge a flat fee ?

swimbo and i are thinking of self building in the next couple of years , and while we realise that it is unwise to try and do without an architect I would like to avoid spending the GNP of uraguay in the process.

The percentage figure is normally just a guide and would be subject to negotiation........but, and this is the danger of answering the original silly question.........it is perfectly possible that a contract of that size could involve 25 people drawing for 18 months or more, plus lots of meetings by managers etc. That isn't a one-man band type job!!!

In a commercial practice a few years ago I worked on a commercial scheme that was worth 90 million, and our fees were 1.2 million, and we didn't make a penny out of it.

On the domestic side, such as you are proposing, the fees would generally be a result of a fee bid (as would the commercial), but would often be a fixed fee. I have never worked on a percentage.

You might budget fees of £4000 or £6000ish, I guess, without having any site supervision. If an architect is administering the contract (which means doing regular site visits, valuations, payments to the contractor etc.), you could bargain on the fees going up to say £30,000. These are just wild guesses given that there is no design.......just to give you an idea of what to allow in a budget.

Hope this helps......

....looks like our original poster wasn't too interested in the answer!!

Mike

big suprise there - i dont normally hijack threads but i figured we might make something worth while out of this one.

I'd be project managing the build myself ( I project manage in my proffesional life anyway) so i guess we'd be more in the 4-6 grand bracket.

without talking yourself out of buisness (pm if you prefer) what does an architect actually do on a build ( and thats a real question not a facestious one) , and whats the least we could get away with them doing ?

also whats the best way to go about finding an architect ? as i guess i will need one who is sympathetic to both self builds and also eco freindly building techniques

 

[joinerb]

thankyou mike, the RIBA website was very helpful.
I am very interested in the answer, it was for an assignment i am currently doing.
my woodworking background is that i am a site joiner, so not up to the standard of some of the work on here. however i find the site very useful for improving my woodworking knowledge

 

[Steve Maskery]

Just my 2p on architects.

Last year we did a house extension. We new what we wanted and I modelled the design concept in SU. We had real difficulty in finding an architect that was interested in such a small project. It seemed they all wanted to do shopping centres.

We found one, and we were told a 3 month lead time. OK, I can live with that. Except that was in November, and she couldn't come to see us until the beginning of Feb. Then she was ill that day and had to rearrange. So now we are into March and the three months starts now. 3 becomes 5 and we eventually get our drawing 10 months after making the phone call. It's a bit different from the three we originally figured.

What she did was fine, although we only wanted drawings, not PM. I was on site to supervise the builders (and a damn good job I was, too) but our real gripe was the time lag between making our enquiry and saying Yes to getting the drawings and being able to proceed. Far too long.

The other bug-bear was the difference between the Good Guys at the local council and the Idiots at the local council. Planning permission was not a problem but there are people out there who have jobs at the public expense who should be castrated so that they cannot pass on their stupidity genes to the next generation.

You know, I rather wish I'd studied architecture, but at 17 I'd no idea what an architect was.

Cheers
Steve

 

[PAC1]

Big soft mouse

I am a lawyer who makes a living from clients asking their Architect to do as little as possible as cheaply as possible. By the time you finish fighting with the builder over what the Architect omitted in that do minimal brief you will have paid several times over what the fee would have been. In my view most construction disputes arise from under designed works. I recently mediated a dispute on a small extension where the amount in issue was 9k and the lawyers bill per party was 90k.

 

[Doug B]

You know, I rather wish I'd studied architecture, but at 17 I'd no idea what an architect was.

Cheers
Steve

Look on the bright side Steve, at least you`ve not had to spend your life being abused & derided buy builders :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[PAC1]

Doug B

I believe Prince Charles may have another go at Architects tonight!

 

[JonnyD]

Whilst we are grumbling about architects all the ones near me seem unable to grasp the ammount of space needed to fit a staircase in. 3 out of my last 5 staircase jobs have required a lot of messing about and rejigging because of the architects plans have been wrong.

On the subject of Charles I think he should shut up and let the architects get on with it. What we need is buildings of the 21st Century and not pastiches of past architectural styles.

Rant Over

Jon

 

[Doug B]

Doug B

I believe Prince Charles may have another go at Architects tonight!

The last i heard the architects were boycotting it.

 

[big soft moose]

Big soft mouse

I am a lawyer who makes a living from clients asking their Architect to do as little as possible as cheaply as possible. By the time you finish fighting with the builder over what the Architect omitted in that do minimal brief you will have paid several times over what the fee would have been. In my view most construction disputes arise from under designed works. I recently mediated a dispute on a small extension where the amount in issue was 9k and the lawyers bill per party was 90k.

I hear what you are saying , but my plan is to 90% of the work myself (with the help of a band of mates who are chippys, brickies, sparkys etc) - the only thing i'm likely to want contractors for is the ground works and the (probably oak) framework.

if i could ommit the architect totally i probably would ( no offence to the proffesion, its just that the funds could be better spent elsewhere) however people keep telling me that i wont get planning permision without getting a set of architect drawn plans.

this is a way down the line as i'm still looking for a plot - but what i will need eventually is an architect who understands that i dont want to build the taj mahal , nor do i want a complete project mgnt service , all I want is someone to turn my sketch up (if that ever works on my computer - but thats another story) into a set of plans plus whatever is required to get planning consent.

 

[MikeG.]

Steve,

sorry it didn't work out as you would have liked with your architect. You probably wouldn't have so much trouble now as some sectors are running fairly short of work.

There really are two schools of architects........the impractical head in the clouds design types who really haven't got the first idea of how a building goes together, and the practical ones with experience of buildings and builders.

Both are absolutely necessary and have their place.......but don't appoint the wrong one!!

Pac 1 is certainly right in that architects are constantly thought of as a good place to trim fees......."what are we getting for our money?"............and then when the job doesn't go right because the builder hasn't got an experienced and knowledgeable outsider looking over his shoulder (and the number of builders who think they know better than architects is incredible).

Anyway, I'm not here to defend the profession, or to get commissions for myself. There are plenty of useless architects out there I'm sure............but decent ones can get you a great building and a painless building process.

BTW, any architect who can't design a staircase properly is not worth his salt.........but I've never come across anyone that poor.

Mike

 

[PAC1]

Big Soft Moose, if that is your plan you may do better looking for a civil engineer/ structural engineer who does a bit of architectural design services. There is one near me but he wants to retire!

 

[PAC1]

Mike said
BTW, any architect who can't design a staircase properly is not worth his salt.........but I've never come across anyone that poor.

You should come and spend a week in my office!

 

[andyw]

or an architectural technician.

However, having worked with a couple of architects, 1 good, 1 rubbish, I can say the good one added a hell of a lot at the design & layout stages.

 

[chris_d]

Dear Big Soft Moose,

I was in the same position as you - I knew exactly what I required, considered myself to have good PM and construction skills, yet too tight to pay for what would be a simple drafting exercise for an Architect. I'm also a chartered engineer, so I know my way around a total-station and AutoCAD.

My solution was to get a building surveyor to survey and draw my existing property in the style suitable for planning permission submission. I then modified the existing drawings into proposed drawings (following the style) and made the submission myself. ProgeSoft do a free AutoCAD clone called ProgeCAD Smart which you'll soon pick up if you can use Sketch-Up.

The surveyor I used was Nicholas Friend of http://www.tekhnecad.com/. He was very professional, quick and reasonable value at <£1K. I know that Nicholas does a lot of work in London so would probably be happy to travel to Wiltshire.

I'm happy to give you advice with ProgeCAD and give you my planning drawings if it helps. PM me if you are interested.

Cheers,
C

 

[MikeG.]

You should come and spend a week in my office!

Architect and lawyer in the same office.......I'd be scared to death!!

Mike

 

[Doug B]

(and the number of builders who think they know better than architects is incredible).



Mike

They all think they do Mike :lol: it must be something they are taught at an early age :shock: :shock: :shock: They also seem to think they know how to do every job in the building trade :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: