Anyone tried Abodo heat treated wood ?

[Ollie78]

I have just ordered some Abodo wood which is supposed to be a good alternative to Accoya.
It is made from the same radiata pine from New Zealand but is heat treated at source rather than being shipped to the Netherlands for pickling.
Aparently its a class 1 durability, the best part is its only about £1300 a m3 so about half the price of Accoya. Hope it works well.

Anyone tried it or have any tips ?

Ollie

 

[Just4Fun]

I have used heat treated wood (produced locally) for decking. The big plus point is that it doesn't need painting or any other treatment. The bad points are:

• Without treatment the lovely brown colour fades to a dull grey which not everyone will like.
• The heat treatment knocks the stuffing out of the wood. I wouldn't recommend it for joinery.
• The heat treatment reduces the structural strength significantly. I have forgotten the figure but perhaps 25% or 40% or something.

 

[robgul]

I have used heat treated wood (produced locally) for decking. The big plus point is that it doesn't need painting or any other treatment. The bad points are:

• Without treatment the lovely brown colour fades to a dull grey which not everyone will like.
• The heat treatment knocks the stuffing out of the wood. I wouldn't recommend it for joinery.
• The heat treatment reduces the structural strength significantly. I have forgotten the figure but perhaps 25% or 40% or something.

I used ThermoWood for wall-cladding in our garden (c110 x 25 planks) - all of the traits above appeared (it was recommeded NOT to apply any treatment*) - I'd be concerned about doing anything structural with it. That said our greenhouse is made from the same stuff - I guess the frame and glass give it stability.

* a small garden table top I made from offcuts has been treated with Owatrol and looks awful (on the list of jobs to make a replacement)

 

[johnnyb]

These developments always make me realise how amazing wood actually is. It's strong and light and can last many years given correct treatment. People are always trying to make materials do things there not entirely suited to. I'm guessing the heat treatment kills all the embedded mould and fungus. Unfortuneatly it alters other aspects negatively. I'm very much of the opinion that slow decay is natural. I have a neighbour well in his eighties who is plastic plastic plastic because he's from that era when plastic was on the up. He's already had 2 plastic bays as the first was shabby( bear in mind the original timber windows lasted 60 years) he's got a plastic lawn plastic fencing....everything. financially and aesthetically its a disaster imho

 

[Sgian Dubh]

High heat treatment of wood to impart specific characteristics has been around since the 1920s. Chief early protagonists for the research and experimentation with high heat treatment are Scandinavian and North American countries.

In all it takes up to four days to treat wood with high heat; up to two days are required to bring the wood up to temperature, between half an hour and five hours for the treatment itself, and as long as twenty four hours are required for cooling. Heat alone would cause burning, so plenty of water in the form of steam is part of the process. Half an hour to an hour at 150ºC (302ºF) or just above is used primarily to change wood colour and these ‘lower’ temperatures don’t cause undue brittleness; the treatments are used primarily on hardwoods, e.g., heat treated birch which I've worked with and was a rich brown and not noticeably brittle. Higher heat treatment at approximately 240ºC (464ºF) for five hours improves durability of the wood at the expense of a significant increase in brittleness. These latter treatments are used on pine or spruce to increase their durability when used for external non-ground contact structures.

Heating wood in this way causes the following effects:

• It alters the physical and chemical properties of the wood permanently. Degradation of the wood hemicellulose occurs, and hydroxyl[1] groups within the wood decrease. As the wood degrades it produces acetic and formic acids along with phenolic and other aromatic compounds.
• The wood darkens— a relatively light heat treatment causes this effect, but the new colour is rather fugitive when exposed to UV light.
• There is a reduction in changes in the wood’s volume in service with changes in moisture content; this is due to chemical changes in the wood, i.e., a decrease in the hydroxyl groups and the effect is to reduce the range of dimensional change, primarily across the grain, as the wood takes on or loses moisture.

---

[1] Hydroxyl: a chemical group in which oxygen and hydrogen are bonded and act as a single entity.

Slainte.

 

[Ollie78]

Interesting variety of opinions.
My use case is for the outer trimwork on some second floor dormer windows, it goes around the edges of the sash windows and over the lead that covers the dormer, Its a bit of a design flaw in my opinion, I suspect the original softwood was not painted on the back and so is turning to compost these were built no more than 20 years ago and the street is a typical pastiche of styles designed to look old but doesn`t.
So not really structural and will be painted so just hoping it will last better than what was put there originally, I will add a proper drip mould to the bottoms as well which the original does not have.

I will see what its like on Monday when I pick it up.

Ollie

 

[dannyr]

there's also heat+pressure treatment of already dry timber - again Nordic/Scandi developed - more pricey, I guess

and about 40 years ago an English/French heat+pressure+resin thick ply was used for pattern-making and for hammer heads (Thor UK had such)- start out with birch but finish very dense, tough and dimensionally stable

(similar principal for some un-necessarily expensive knife and tool handles these days)

 

[yetloh]

High heat treatment of wood to impart specific characteristics has been around since the 1920s. Chief early protagonists for the research and experimentation with high heat treatment are Scandinavian and North American countries.

In all it takes up to four days to treat wood with high heat; up to two days are required to bring the wood up to temperature, between half an hour and five hours for the treatment itself, and as long as twenty four hours are required for cooling. Heat alone would cause burning, so plenty of water in the form of steam is part of the process. Half an hour to an hour at 150ºC (302ºF) or just above is used primarily to change wood colour and these ‘lower’ temperatures don’t cause undue brittleness; the treatments are used primarily on hardwoods, e.g., heat treated birch which I've worked with and was a rich brown and not noticeably brittle. Higher heat treatment at approximately 240ºC (464ºF) for five hours improves durability of the wood at the expense of a significant increase in brittleness. These latter treatments are used on pine or spruce to increase their durability when used for external non-ground contact structures.

Heating wood in this way causes the following effects:

• It alters the physical and chemical properties of the wood permanently. Degradation of the wood hemicellulose occurs, and hydroxyl[1] groups within the wood decrease. As the wood degrades it produces acetic and formic acids along with phenolic and other aromatic compounds.
• The wood darkens— a relatively light heat treatment causes this effect, but the new colour is rather fugitive when exposed to UV light.
• There is a reduction in changes in the wood’s volume in service with changes in moisture content; this is due to chemical changes in the wood, i.e., a decrease in the hydroxyl groups and the effect is to reduce the range of dimensional change, primarily across the grain, as the wood takes on or loses moisture.

---

[1] Hydroxyl: a chemical group in which oxygen and hydrogen are bonded and act as a single entity.

Slainte.

Interesting, and no one has mantioned the carbon cost of all that heat. Also, one owner of a business which had used Accoya quite a bit told me that a couple of his employees had developed nasty reactions to it, so he had stopped using it. I wonder if this risk also applies to other similar products.

Jim

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Interesting, and no one has mantioned the carbon cost of all that heat. Also, one owner of a business which had used Accoya quite a bit told me that a couple of his employees had developed nasty reactions to it, so he had stopped using it. I wonder if this risk also applies to other similar products.

Jim

No doubt the carbon cost is an issue. I presume an argument might be made that the carbon cost is at least partially offset by the longevity in service of the treated wood in terms of durability. In other words, assuming longevity in service of the treated wood might be perhaps ~40 years compared to ~15 years for untreated wood of the same species which would therefore need replacement, i.e., another tree cut down leading to a depleted carbon storage ability. Similar carbon cost concerns could no doubt be raised about kiln drying wood.

When I wrote my book on timber technology, from which my post [#5] above was in part lifted, my focus was on the topic of high heat treatment of wood and its purpose rather than environmental issues, a topic I covered elsewhere in the book.

You're not the first I've heard mention adverse reactions some have had to Accoya. On the other hand, I've not heard similar stories related to handling high heat treated timber, but I've not been looking for such stories either. Slainte.

 

[Max Power]

High heat treatment of wood to impart specific characteristics has been around since the 1920s. Chief early protagonists for the research and experimentation with high heat treatment are Scandinavian and North American countries.

In all it takes up to four days to treat wood with high heat; up to two days are required to bring the wood up to temperature, between half an hour and five hours for the treatment itself, and as long as twenty four hours are required for cooling. Heat alone would cause burning, so plenty of water in the form of steam is part of the process. Half an hour to an hour at 150ºC (302ºF) or just above is used primarily to change wood colour and these ‘lower’ temperatures don’t cause undue brittleness; the treatments are used primarily on hardwoods, e.g., heat treated birch which I've worked with and was a rich brown and not noticeably brittle. Higher heat treatment at approximately 240ºC (464ºF) for five hours improves durability of the wood at the expense of a significant increase in brittleness. These latter treatments are used on pine or spruce to increase their durability when used for external non-ground contact structures.

Heating wood in this way causes the following effects:

• It alters the physical and chemical properties of the wood permanently. Degradation of the wood hemicellulose occurs, and hydroxyl[1] groups within the wood decrease. As the wood degrades it produces acetic and formic acids along with phenolic and other aromatic compounds.
• The wood darkens— a relatively light heat treatment causes this effect, but the new colour is rather fugitive when exposed to UV light.
• There is a reduction in changes in the wood’s volume in service with changes in moisture content; this is due to chemical changes in the wood, i.e., a decrease in the hydroxyl groups and the effect is to reduce the range of dimensional change, primarily across the grain, as the wood takes on or loses moisture.

---

[1] Hydroxyl: a chemical group in which oxygen and hydrogen are bonded and act as a single entity.

Slainte.

An excellent response as always Richard. I prefer working with air dried timber over most kiln dried and cant imagine cooking the life out of timber would make it anything other than worse to work with.

 

[Ollie78]

Here is a quick update and first impressions of the Abodo wood I picked up today.

Here it is after planing it to rough size.

The first thing I noticed when I collected it was the lightness of it as I put it in the van, the second was the burned/toasted smell which is quite strong but better than the vinegar smell of accoya.
I ran it through the planer and it machines cleanly, I think it should take a moulding very well, it does behave similarly to Accoya in that it makes a fine slightly static dust as well as chips from the planer.
On first impression I think it feels slightly less brittle than Accoya but softer, I have yet to hand plane any but I am hoping it likes that better than Accoya which really hates it.
The brown toasted colour is even throughout the boards, this is not important in my case as I am painting it but it does look quite nice actually.
Be interested to see if this colour will fade over time.

Ollie

 

[Just4Fun]

That looks a lot nicer than the heat treated wood I have used.

 

[dannyr]

there's also heat+pressure treatment of already dry timber - again Nordic/Scandi developed - more pricey, I guess

and about 40 years ago a European heat+pressure+resin thick ply was used for pattern-making and for hammer heads (Thor UK had such)- start out with beech but finish very dense, tough and dimensionally stable

(similar principal for some un-necessarily expensive knife and tool handles these days)

remembered the name - 'lignostone' - special applications, invented 1915, germany, still made for some interesting applications, can even make surprisingly strong wooden nuts&bolts - I met it first as a material for hammer/mallet heads I also have a sample of another maker's equivalent which was sold as a v stable material for pattern making

now what's the heat and pressure one in 'timber' sizes? launched about 10 years ago? and I don't mean the usual 'pressure-treated timber' - much higher pressure (after all the v large scale particulate board makers use v high pressure and raised temp, but in this case applied to planks) maybe wasn't a commercial success