Anyone had any luck with one of these?

[speeder1987]

Hi guys,

I've recently started woodworking and I've decided that I want to try my hand at making a jewellery box for my partners birthday. To do this I wanted to split a piece of walnut so I can book match the sides. Anyway I don't have a workshop ( you can see I do most of my work outside) so have neither the funds nor space for a bandsaw. In the search for a hand tool which could be used to split a piece of work in half I came across a frame saw. Anyway I set about making one and ended up with this



I made it from oak (I haven't applied a finish yet). I just filed flats and drilled holes through a bolt and a coach bold to make the fixings

Here it is splitting a piece of walnut

It seemed to be working pretty well, though I couldn't keep the cut straight, no matter what I did, the saw just kept wandering! I really had to fight it. I've got the saw as tensioned as I can make it without fear of breaking the saw. In the end I split the wood, but its not book matched as i had to flatten it out with a plane.

Anyone got any experience of using a frame saw?

Cheers
John

 

[dickm]

Have never tried using a frame saw, but by the look of it, you've made a pretty good job. How long did it take?

 

[speeder1987]

Took me about 40 minutes, but I was trying to be careful to cut it straight. Should probably have said that the last pic of the two boards, are after I have flattened them, so it not the actual finish from the saw. Though it has to be said that the saw left a pretty clean cut.

 

[Racers]

Hi,

Was it wandering to one side? if it was it probbaly had to much set on that side of the blade.

Where did you get the blade from?

Pete

 

[speeder1987]

I got the blade from

http://www.fine-tools.com/gestell.htm

Unfortunately it is one of the japenese blades so it is not possible to sharpen, and therefore I assume also can't be re-set. I also got a couple of the "Western blades" so i'll try one of them on the next piece, see if it still wanders.

Cheers
John

 

[Racers]

Hi, John

You can reduce the set by stoning the side of the teeth.

Pete

 

[speeder1987]

Hi, John

You can reduce the set by stoning the side of the teeth.

Pete

I'm not sure Pete, I'm pretty new to wood working and I've never set a saw, is it easy to see if the saw is set to much on one side just by eyeballing it?

Forgive the ignorance, but what do u meaning by stoning it? A little apprehensive of doing more damage than good

Could it be the blade doesn't have enough tension? When I pluck it, it makes a dull clunk noise still

Cheers
John

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[custard]

Hello John,

I can't help on this project, but I see you're based in Hampshire.

I'm currently relocating my workshop from London to Lymington in Hampshire. So if you're still hooked on the woodworking bug at the end of this year, and need something whizzing through a planer, thicknesser, bandsaw, panel saw, etc then let me know!

Cheers

 

[thick_mike]

I had the same problem with my homemade frame saw (made from an old "FOR SALE" board post...not as nice as yours). I used a pruning/bow saw blade thingy which I think wasn't deep enough. I found the blade wandering and it was difficult to jeep the frame level.

If the blade wanders consistently to one side, it means that there is too much set on that side of the blade (the teeth stick out too far). You can take a sharpening stone and pass it along that side of the blade (parallel to the side of the blade). This makes those teeth stick out less far and improves the tracking of the blade. I would say do this one pass (of the stone) at a time, then test and repeat as necessary.

Japanese blades can be delicate beasts, so do this with caution. Teeth can break.

 

[János]

Hello,

If a frame saw does not cut straight, the first thing to check is blade alignment: a twisted blade results in kinky cuts :wink:

Have a nice day,

János

 

[speeder1987]

Hello John,

I can't help on this project, but I see you're based in Hampshire.

I'm currently relocating my workshop from London to Lymington in Hampshire. So if you're still hooked on the woodworking bug at the end of this year, and need something whizzing through a planer, thicknesser, bandsaw, panel saw, etc then let me know!

Cheers

Thanks custard ill bare that in mind, that's very generous of you.

I think janos may be correct, one of my fixings the slot I cut isn't completely vertical which mhst make the blade slightly kinked. I originally thought that the tension would pull it straight but it must still be kinked enough to make it wander. I won't get a chance to use the saw for a few weeks now as I'm going on holiday, but when I get back I will try both one of the other blades and ill remake the crooked fixing

Thanks for all the advice

Cheers
John

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[baldpate]

Hi John,

Hope you enjoyed your holiday. Just a few thoughts for when you get back.

If the slot in your fixing bolts isn't completely square, I don't think is matters too much : if the slot is closed up tightly with the bolt which runs through the hole in the blade (so that the blade is tightly gripped where it exists from the slot)), then the blade will be held firmly at whatever angle it exits the end of the slot : as long as that angle is the same at both ends of the blade (preferable 90 degrees to the frame), and the cross-bolt is tight, and the blade tension is sufficient (so the angle doesn't change as you saw), it shouldn't matter too much if the slots aren't completely square along the length of the retaining bolt.

Regarding the tension: my frame saw is, I think, smaller than yours (27"X15") and uses one of those "pruning/bow saw blades" which thick_mick mentions (about 60x2cm. so not really wide enough). If I pluck mine, it sound around middle D (the 4th note from top on a standard guitar tuning, one tone above middle C). A reasonably clear note - certainly not "a dull clunk". I think the dull clunk could be either because (a) the ends of the blade are not being clamped tightly enough (see above), or (b) the tension isn't high enough.

Regarding blade tension : my frame is made of ash latts , 30x15mm on the long sides (thinish, since only under compression) and 30x30 on the cross members (under tension from the blade, so thicker : each 2 x laminated latts). I think, if necessary, I could tension the blade even more without stressing the frame beyond bearing. As it is I have to work to tension the blade with a box spanner and tommy bar. From your pictures, your frame looks even more robust than mine, so I wonder if the blade tension is quite high enough?

When you get back, let us know how it goes with the fixing remake & alternative blade. I'm particularly interested in the blade, as I have been thinking for some time of making a larger (700mm) saw with one of the Dieter Schmid blades (but wasn't sure which would work best).

Chris

 

[Sawyer]

How many teeth per inch does the saw blade have? Is it a rip blade, or a general purpose/crosscut? When cutting along the grain, the difference that proper rip teeth make is enormous. Cut will be easier, cleaner, straighter and much faster with rip teeth.

 

[speeder1987]

Hi Guys finally got back from hols, and had a chance yesterday to dash out in the brief respite we had in between downpours and I tried some of the suggestions here. I thought I would try do the things first which would be easier to implement, so I changed the blade to one the other rip saw blades that I have , and I also tensioned it more :shock: (didn't enjoy all the creaking) . This seems to have improved the wandering though this blade doesn't seem to cut as well as before as I don't think its as sharp (its not one of the Japanese blade). Its alot harder work as it binds a fare bit.

When the torrential rain stops here, I'm going to go back to the Japanese cross-cut blade I've got and try that, if the saw no longer wanders I will no its the tension, if it wanders again then I will know that the saw isn't set right.

Again thanks for all the help

John

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Just a thought - I wonder if the frame needs to be so wide. For resawing boards, you'd rarely need more than 4" either side of the blade, and that's halving 6" thick stock. By cutting down the length of the endpieces, the whole frame could be stiffened up quite a bit, and it might make it a bit lighter and less awkward to handle, as well.

 

[baldpate]

Regarding width, there's a bit of trade-off though. isn't there? The cross-pieces on a narrower saw may not need to be as thick to support the blade tension, but the wider saw is easier to steer.

Also, it just occurs to me that lightness in a frame saw may not be all that desirable (within reason. of course). In operation, the saw is supported by the wood ; a heavier frame might help the blade do it's work?

 

[speeder1987]

The reason I made it wide was for that reason, from the little information I have read, the wider the saw, the easier to steer.

In terms of weight, I'm not so sure, I think the one I made is to heavy, it could be one reason why its binding, though on the other hand there isn't really a way of putting more weight behind it to cut, so it can't be to light :-? Seems to be a bit of a balencing act.

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[monkeybiter]

I don't know anything about frame saws but couldn't you fit wooden blade guides inboard of the frame, separate to the tensioning bolts, to keep the blade square at both ends. You could also thicken/reinforce the members holding the tensioners, allowing you to create greater tension if you need it.