another one of those questions

[engineer one]

just put a glass shelf up in an alcove, and managed to get three out of the four screws dead right, but

now i have done this before, and i used a level, so what do other people use, particularly in restricted spaces? :?

trying to be clever, i put the drill through the centre of the shelf support,
and then moved the unit to the marked line. still got one of the four out enough to have a rocking. managed to massage it, but

so how do the pros make sure that holes in plaster, or other things are EXACTLY in the right line, particularly when the drill gets sent off into the distance???

paul :wink:

 

[DomValente]

Paul are you saying how do you get all the screw holes in line, say inside a cupboard if you were using blocks as shelf supports

 

[mambo]

we use either a level or laser to project a line then carefully drill the holes
if a hole doesnt quite line up you`ll find you can drive the screw in between the plug and the hole to just adjust it slightly a mm either way, and still get a solid fixing :wink:

 

[engineer one]

dom exactly that.

actually i understand about putting them in cupboard sides, and using
for instance pin or spacer boards, but what about an alcove in the wall,
and also just putting up a shelf on any kind of plastered uk wall, particularly old ones???

actually for shelf supports in cupboards i use my mafell duo doweller
and take one of the drill out, then use spacers, however a bit difficult in the alcove i was in tonight

paul :wink:

 

[Shultzy]

I find if you use a smaller dia drill than required for the plug and drill it with a hand drill it will "wander" less. Then drill out with correct size drill, again with a hand drill.

 

[DomValente]

Am I missing something

Could you not use a spacer board with the hole drilled in it at the correct height

 

[MooreToolsPlease]

I suppose that would only work if the floor was level to begin with?

 

[Wanlock Dod]

Paul,

A slightly different situation perhaps, but in fixing battons to solid walls I have at times cheated and stuck them there with no-nails type glue, taking care that they are correctly placed. then gone back the next day and drilled and fixed them to the wall with some of those bash in rawplug things. Not sure if it'll be any help.

Cheers,

Dod

 

[promhandicam]

for a glass shelf you could always put a tiny dab of clear silicone on the support that is low - as long as it isn't miles out. :wink:

Steve

 

[promhandicam]

A slightly different situation perhaps, but in fixing battons to solid walls . . .

For battens the best way I find is to mark the line on the wall with a spirit level, put one fixing in the middle of the batten using a 6mm SDS drill bit and then insert a screw into the end of a plastic plug then bang the plug through the batten and into the wall with the srew until about 25mm of the screw is protruding. Then tighten the screw (with a screw driver preferably although you can continue with the hammer if you like :wink: ) One you have one fixing in place you can then continue the same procedure at intervals along the batten ensuring the batten stays tight to the line on the wall. Although I don't think that technically it is correct, No.8 screws work fine in 6mm plugs. If you need to go to something more substantial use a No10 and a 7mm plug.

Steve

 

[engineer one]

dom, maybe i am not reporting properly,so you may well be missing my point.

when you have made something, or are in the process, it is easy to keep accurate because you have baselines which are known and "you hope" accurate.

however most of us have at times to work in houses, and whilst we all bitch about older ones, some of the more modern ones seem to deliver even more problems.

as we all know, the floors are not straight and level all across, and often the plaster is hard in one place and less so elsewhere, or you have bricks, cement blocks, concrete etc. you know how often do you try to hang curtains, and find at each end you have different materials to drill into.

so yesterday i was working in a 300mm wide, by 700mm high by 300mm deep alcove and it is not square. glass is but not the walls. so i measure what the client wants to instal, then place a line down from the top for the first hole. fit the shelf bracket, then use a level to set out the rear bracket, and as i said drilled through the bracket, whilst holding it to the bottom of the line drawn.

next i fitted the rear bracket, and placed the glass, then levelled it across
and drew a line. then again drilled for the two other brackets. but with all that i still had one which was not quite right, so i had to massage it.

so the question remains. if you are putting up a shelf that is longer than your spirit level, how do you ensure that you get the holes in the same line? or if in a confined space how do you do it???

oh by the way, i have also drilled with small drills first. :lol:

in certain circumstances, you cannot use a "pinboard" because of the lack of level of the base, or roof, so then what???

paul :wink:

 

[DomValente]

Ah, I see, sorry I was being dense.

Sorry Paul. I do a lot of shopfitting and often meet a problem like this, but, like you the only answer we've found is as you say massage it, levels,plumbs,lasers don't help, there's no avoiding rotten plaster, rsj's etc.
I have a sign in my workshop which I refer to regularly, it reads Patience,Patience,Patience.
If anyone else has the simple solution I'd like to hear it too.

Dom

 

[mambo]

have you tried a shorter level?
i have a 6' a 4' an 12" and a 6" and if all else fails i use a battenwith the level on top

 

[spadge]

Hi Paul,

I think your problem is that you are expecting a perfect solution but you are working in an imperfect world.
My current house has a mixture of stone, lath and plaster and brick walls.
Fixing to the brick walls is not too bad, unless where you want your hole lines up with the edges of a brick when it will inevitabley wander off line into the morter seam. Once you have found the 3X2 uprights fitting to the lath and plaster walls is OK. Fixing to the stone walls is a nightmare because underneath the plaster is random stone with big voids filled with soft mortar so it can take 2 or 3 goes to find something solid.
So I reckon like Dom a bit of massaging is almost inevitable. Oh and call it creative thinking rather than massaging, sounds much better :wink:

 

[JFC]

Massage it :lol: (hammer)

 

[RogerS]

Oh and call it creative thinking rather than massaging, sounds much better :wink:

I like finessing...makes it sound so much more expensive :lol:

 

[engineer one]

well as an engineer of course i do have my "birmingham screwdriver"
(that shows my age too :lol: :roll: )

which of course is a HAMMER (hammer) so jason is of course right.

thanks guys, i was of course expecting a "snap" moment when someone somewhere actually had an answer, and i guess splodge is right there is not one. it all depends upon how the guys who "built" the house, or rebuilt it have madeup the different surfaces i guess.

one thought i did have was to use a piece of flat bar with holes in it, but attached to a square end, rather like a t square, or indeed a slot guide.
however, it would need to extend rather like diagonal sticks to fit all the different depths, and of course you can't guarantee that the upright is square to the floor and walls either

and of course you still can't guarantee that the drill will stay where you started it :lol:

paul :wink:

 

[garywayne]

Hi Paul.

I don't know how to stop a drill bit from wondering, but if you wish to put up brackets which your spirit levels either don't reach, or are to long, try a water level. Just a clear hose with coloured water. I use food colouring.

I hope I have understood what you mean, and have helped.

 

[engineer one]

as usual gary a nice idea, but how do you hold the ends of the level up???

sadly my arms are only about 6ft spread??? :roll:

actually i have one of those 4ft levels with so called hanging tabs, bits of plastic that you can move along and supposedly give you the ability to hang things level. fine but if you are in a small alcove, why oh why do they make it so you can't move the b****y things except around the middle :lol: :lol:

paul :wink: