(another) First workbench questions

[DTR]

I read recently that Haywood recommended against oak for a workbench because it splinters too easily.

My own bench has a softwood top, and I must say that using Richard's holdfasts has deformed the dog holes somewhat. The holes are still usable but the dogs (even though fitted with ball catches) will no longer support themselves in some of the holes.

 

[Benchwayze]

Oh Dear Dave!

Now I am wondering!

Although, as I intend to use the holes mostly for hold-fasts, I can stay with softwood. The only other answer I can think of is a sleeve of electrical conduit, epoxied in and sunk about 1/2" below the bench surface. So it looks like I have some experimenting to do in scrap. to work out the right size drills!

Glad you mentioned this one Dave, as it allows me to plan ahead!
Thanks buddy.

 

[Benchwayze]

I think that Oak is not suitable for a bench top. The tannins in the oak react with ferrous metals so hardware such as holdfasts, vices and some tools would cause problems. I'd definitely recommend Chris Schwartz's book. Its a good read and even if you do not use his designs, his analytical approach will make your own decisions easier.

You have a point Eoin.

Although I can't say any of my tools have ever been affected by oak, when working with the stuff. For sure we have to be careful with oak (During the actual working) to keep water away, as moisture causes the tannins react badly with ferrous metals.

I do always take the precaution of wiping my tools down with a spot of 3 in 1 though, whenever I am finished with an oak project. But as said, I never had a problem, either with the timber or my tools.
HTH

 

[Noel]

I read recently that Haywood recommended against oak for a workbench because it splinters too easily.

My own bench has a softwood top, and I must say that using Richard's holdfasts has deformed the dog holes somewhat. The holes are still usable but the dogs (even though fitted with ball catches) will no longer support themselves in some of the holes.

Sink and glue in some hardwood blocks/dowels etc and re-drill.

 

[DTR]

Glad you mentioned this one Dave, as it allows me to plan ahead!
Thanks buddy.

I hope it helps. Interesting idea re using conduit. I look forward to hearing how your experiments go.

Sink and glue in some hardwood blocks/dowels etc and re-drill.

A fine suggestion. I must say though it is no more than a minor inconvenience at the mo. All I have to do is hold the dog in place until I've pinched the work up to it. I plan on building a new bench at some point anyway, and that will have a hardwood top.

 

[Benchwayze]

How about I should include a couple of hardwood (Ash?) battens in the top, where the holes are to be drilled? Might have problems with different rates of drying of the timber though.

On the other hand, I could stretch to using Ash overall, for the top and make it removable, so it's not glued to the base-frame.
:mrgreen:

 

[Phil Sewell]

My idea with the top is to have the front part where you do any pounding as hardwood (mine is ex 4" iroko) but use mdf for the back part, making it easily removed for changing when damaged. I use a machine bed if I need a flat surface, solid bench tops never stay flat.

I also made mine quite tall, I thought too tall to start with but I'm used to it now and it helps with my back, to a degree anyway. I use a seperate table I have made for assembly work, 8' by 4' with a 25mm mdf top. The legs fold up and I have a pulley system to hoist it up into ther roof if I'm doing a large job needing floor space.

One thing with the bench which i have to rectify is a slight amount of racking when hand planing. This surprised me as I have a wide rail at the back. I would also suggest no rail under the front of the top, I'm always cramping here.

Here it is on my website if of any interest

http://finehandmadeboxes.co.uk/the%20work%20bench.htm

I'm generally pretty pleased with it (big improvement on the last one). I wish I'd put in more dogs nearer the end vices though, save so much winding in and out!

P.

 

[Benchwayze]

Nice bench Phil.

My present top is what's left of some laminated Philippine Mahogany boards. (Luan) It's very soft and the grain is all ways. It has also taken a beating . (My son fixed his car engine on it, when I was on holiday one year! )

I think you might have something regarding wooden bench tops not staying flat, but we do need them as flat possible for planing on. Also, I have to use the bench to level chair legs (for example). No other surface big enough!

Racking is something I don't get, as the end of the bench nestles in the angle of the wall and a brick-buttress. So nothing moves. But it's time for a new 24" wide bench as the extra 6" space I'd gain, would make a noticeable difference in my single-garage shop.

 

[Jacob]

The remedy for racking is an apron. It is difficult to make those continental style benches rigid enough without bracing or aprons. Another hostage to fashion!
You don't need to ge too carried away by flatness IMHO - it's the top of a board you are planing, not the underside, which if as yet un-planed could be very irregular and gain nothing from a flat bench top.

 

[Phil Sewell]

Thanks John,

I'm fortuneate to have some big old machines to use for flat bases. I need to put some diagonal braces in to stop the racking but it's one of those jobs that's not top of the "to do" list. Worth the op thinking about possibly bracing as he is starting from scratch.

I'm trying to get my head around sketch up to try and present better drawings for potential clients at the moment. I can't find enough time to really sit down and get into it!

P.

 

[Phil Sewell]

Jacob,

I have a something like a 10" rail at the back of the bench below the top which is bolted to the legs and the whole thing weighs a ton so I was surprised to get any racking. It's only a slight amount but I would like to eliminate it. I have used a bench with a front rail (when I was an employee) and found it very restricting re using cramps at the front edge of the top.

In my opinion benches are very personal things and you really have to use one for a while to find out how it does or doesn't work for you.
My first one was a maple bench with drawers. I found I didn't need the top to be all solid maple and the drawers and the tool well just filled up with dust and shavings. The end vice didn't work for me either. I have done away with drawers and tool well with the new bench and changed the end vice to one which is incorporated into the top. Not my idea, got it from the Landis bench book, but it's a big improvement.
P.

 

[Benchwayze]

Thanks John,

I'm fortuneate to have some big old machines to use for flat bases. I need to put some diagonal braces in to stop the racking but it's one of those jobs that's not top of the "to do" list. Worth the op thinking about possibly bracing as he is starting from scratch.

I'm trying to get my head around sketch up to try and present better drawings for potential clients at the moment. I can't find enough time to really sit down and get into it!

P.

Phil,

I prefer to draw 'artistic' representations myself. On occasion I have done a watercolour drawing, for people I made stuff for. But as I don't do that kind of work any more, I just use a postcard or a table napkin!!!
I did use *** packets until I gave up smoking!!!

It's always nice though to have a flat benchtop. I usually ditch any twisted boards anyhow, and if I am going to plane a face side, then I put the flattest side downwards on the bench. Rarely, I need to pack underneath of course.

But since my spondulitis got really bad, I bought a planer/thicknesser. Now, I make one side nice and flat, then thickness it. That way most of my hand-planing is done during finishing, or edge jointing. So maybe I could even use a top that is in winding; and when my back hurts, I could always lean on the apron! Problem is they get in the way when reaching for stuff under the bench. So many designs and mods eh?
:wink:

 

[tomthumbtom8]

P
Try sketch up warehouse they may have a drawing of a bench ??

 

[Phil Sewell]

Phil,

I prefer to draw 'artistic' representations myself. On occasion I have done a watercolour drawing, for people I made stuff for. But as I don't do that kind of work any more, I just use a postcard or a table napkin!!!
I did use *** packets until I gave up smoking!!!



Good idea Jon with the water colour sketch as a presentation drawing. Trouble is my sketching leaves a lot to be desired!
I was amazed at an image of a box Ian Hawthorne posted that he had done in sketchup, rendered with something else I think but so life like.

We are digressing a bit from the original op's question!
Might start a new post asking how people present designs to potential clients.
Phil.