An impossible question

[Alf]

Sorry, folks, I was leaving this 'cos I didn't want to hijack this any further - sorry, newbieblyth. But I should apologise to Paul (of the engineering variety); I did come across as a bit prickly about it and I shouldn't have. I was just annoyed with mysef 'cos I'd meant to include "no affiliation" earlier and forgot. Rather a good example of why I've jacked it in, in fact. I turn into a snappy, irritable, paranoid so-and-so whenever reviews, bias, etc get mentioned, or appear to be mentioned, these days, which ain't a Good Thing. And, obstinately, I'm damned if I'm going to conform to the naysayers' idea of what makes me an honest reviewer by just reviewing what I buy myself either. *** 'em; either all my reviews are worth reading or none or them are - this leopard doesn't change her shorts* depending on a tool's origins. Which is a shame 'cos I was going to do the Mujingfang and the Anant dado plane too. :roll:

Anyway, apologies for the hijack; back to your normal programming. Java, Ruby, etc...

Cheers, Alf

* It's a Discworld thing...

 

[engineer one]

interesting alf, but since the first time, my hide has grown thicker :lol: :twisted:

i too should apologise since i did not write my input properly
which should have mentioned that you had no affiliation.

anyway back to the real world, even if only for me, continue
with the reviews, and s*d the rest. only by someone who is respected
properly reviewing things can we overcome the hype.

now i have to see about one of these other wooden planes, and
move forward too. :twisted:

paul :wink:

 

[MikeW]

And another apology for a hijaak...

*** 'em; either all my reviews are worth reading or none or them are - this leopard doesn't change her shorts* depending on a tool's origins. Which is a shame 'cos I was going to do the Mujingfang and the Anant dado plane too.

...anyway back to the real world, even if only for me, continue with the reviews, and s*d the rest. only by someone who is respected properly reviewing things can we overcome the hype...

Well, Alf, we do sorely miss your wit and honesty in a review. Perhaps this is mitigated because of the generosity of your time in How-To posts like the recent chisel handle thread.

btw, they--the reviews--have and will continue to stand as a good read.

Take care, and a good night, Mike
awaiting the next Alf installment...

 

[newbieblyth]

Thankyou to everyone who has provided advice. Alf don't worry too much about the hi-jack, and I for one have found the reviews useful and if I start making anything useful a certain manufacturers BU jack plane will be on my list (just can't afford it now )

Westonbirt was a good day out, Rob's demo was useful although I doubt if I will be cutting dovetails for a while, it also became an interesting double act between him and David Charlesworth. I bought some bits of wood, my lovely wants me to make some kind of waney edged framed mirror, so not too sure how that will turn out. I also picked up a Stanley No 4 for £12, according to the bloke who sold it too me it was a good one- allegedly pre-war American Stanley. Anyway it seems to work better than anything I had before, I just need to sort my sharpening techniques out....

This is the shopping list I have come up with so far, whether I can fit it into my budget of £150, what do you think?
Sharpening Kit (Ice Bear probably)
Japanese Saw - which would people recommend for general detail use, ie not dovetails.
"Basic" set of chisels
Marking Knife
Woodworking Vice and Bench Dogs - currently have a nice long bench I made along one side of the garage fixed to the wall but only have lightweight vice.
Dividers
Square
Jack Plane (Another second hand Stanley hopefully)
Cutting gauge - I have a standard wooden mortice gauge but I cannot really get on with it - I liked the thing Rob was using - but I don't think I can run to that

If anyone can spot any essentials that I am missing, or have any specifiec recommendations particularily for the chisels and saw please let me know.

philpolish do you have any pictures of your jig it sounds interesting, I just can't get my head round it.

Thanks Again

Andrew

 

[bugbear]

Cutting gauge - I have a standard wooden mortice gauge but I cannot really get on with it - I liked the thing Rob was using - but I don't think I can run to that

If you mean Rob Cosman, that was the super-dooper tite mark.

But this cuts nicely:

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images ... ge_id=2731

and is a comparitively easy conversion from a car-boot 50p marking gauge.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... ght=#32163

A wedged one is a slightly simpler conversion if you don't have metal working facilities.

BugBear

 

[Paul Chapman]

btw, they--the reviews--have and will continue to stand as a good read.

And good reference material for those wishing to buy things. I re-read Alf's reviews before deciding to buy a new block plane, cabinet scraper and marking gauge. They are the only reviews I have found that I can depend on to tell me the things I really want to know. They are always written from a user's perspective :wink:

Paul

PS apologies for further hijacking

 

[newbieblyth]

OK I have assembled the following shopping list:
Waterstone kit 33.25
Marking gauge 14.69
Saw 27.38
Vice 11.97
Bench Dogs 9.74
Marking Knife 3.38 (r/h) -do I need both versions?
Honing Guide 29.95
Chisels (set 3) 25.47

This gets me to about my £150 budget.

Are any of these really BAD buys, I have gone for Axminster for convenience. I think I might be better with a Veritas marking gauge if I have read Alf's reviews correctly. The chisels and the saw I have guessed at.

Once again any words of wisdom greatfully received. ie any other suggestion for replacements or extras that aren't going to blow my budget out of the water.

Cheers

 

[Alf]

OK I have assembled the following shopping list:

Links; I like

Waterstone kit 33.25

Pass due to ignorance...

Marking gauge 14.69

Ooooo, no, I wouldn't do that. Either go for the Veritas or save yourself some cash and have an opportunity to try different styles of gauge and go for this. It is small, mind you, but once you get in the habit of tightening the fence it's a nice little gauge. And you'll still use it if/when you upgrade. Alternatively look at getting a basic wooden beech one and putting the savings towards whichever book it is of David Charlesworth's that tells you how to tune it up. For some extra, there are the TiteMark knock-offs popping up these days. Axminster are listing one at £20...

Saw 27.38

Hmm, dunno. If the depth stop isn't removable(?) can you use it to cut though anything thicker? Trouble is I'm a Western saw kinda gal :?

Vice 11.97

Again, dunno, but I doubt how good a £12 vice can really be :-k You don't have any decent car boot sales handy, do you? Maybe a lively classified column in the local paper? Useable vices are out there, if you have the right hunting grounds.

Bench Dogs 9.74

Nooooooo! Metal dogs are just asking to damage tools. Buy a length of 3/4" beech dowel, cut to length and either attach a square piece to the top or chisel a flat on one face. Definitely save your money.

Marking Knife 3.38 (r/h) -do I need both versions?

It'll do; just tilt it to allow for the bevel like here. A scalpel, Xacto knife, penkife, anything'll do as long as you're familiar with it.

Honing Guide 29.95

Sharp is the biggest single most helpful thing, so while the thrifty person inside me screams "get the Eclipse knockoff", I have to say I think this one'll help you more.

Chisels (set 3) 25.47

Erm... not my favourites, it has to be said, but there are worse. And you'll get lots of sharpening practice... :wink: I think maybe I'd sooner reduce to two chisels and get a couple of Kirschens or something instead. But on the other hand sharpening practice isn't a Bad Thing.

I'm seeing a worrying lack of measuring devices here - got that covered? No good being able to cut to the line if the line's in the wrong place (DAMH...) No whispy, or crunchy, shaving-making devices either, but you may have that covered too. On the whole it's a good little kit of stuff to start with I reckon, apart from the "ooo no" ones :wink: Some are lifelong purchases, some are good introductions, can't say fairer than that.

Cheers, Alf

 

[newbieblyth]

Alf thanks for that:

I'm seeing a worrying lack of measuring devices here - got that covered? No good being able to cut to the line if the line's in the wrong place (DAMH...)

I have got a combination square various steel rules and usually I have assorted tape measures if I haven't mislaid them, left them in the house garden.. got them bent etc...

No whispy, or crunchy, shaving-making devices either

No nice ones yet I have my £12 plane from Westonbirt which is miles better than anything I had before..

Westonbirt was a good day out, Rob's demo was useful although I doubt if I will be cutting dovetails for a while, it also became an interesting double act between him and David Charlesworth. I bought some bits of wood, my lovely wants me to make some kind of waney edged framed mirror, so not too sure how that will turn out. I also picked up a Stanley No 4 for £12, according to the bloke who sold it too me it was a good one- allegedly pre-war American Stanley. Anyway it seems to work better than anything I had before, I just need to sort my sharpening techniques out....

...I'm keeping my eyes open for a longer one... unless someone is generous at my birthday.. an LV low angle jack- is that the best way to go?

 

[dedee]

Can I suggest your first project should be one of these. It took me far too long to realise quite how necessary a shooting board is.

Andy

 

[bugbear]

Marking gauge 14.69

Ooooo, no, I wouldn't do that. Either go for the Veritas or save yourself some cash and have an opportunity to try different styles of gauge and go for this. It is small, mind you, but once you get in the habit of tightening the fence it's a nice little gauge. And you'll still use it if/when you upgrade. Alternatively look at getting a basic wooden beech one and putting the savings towards whichever book it is of David Charlesworth's that tells you how to tune it up. For some extra, there are the TiteMark knock-offs popping up these days. Axminster are listing one at £20...
...
Cheers, Alf

Superb advice Alf.

I would strongly recommend getting to a car boot, where a nice beech marking gauge, with boxwood screw should cost no more than a quid, 50p if your luck's in.

You may decide to get 2 and convert one of them to a cutting gauge.

(Anyone need yet another link to that picture?)

Other recommended car boot "freebies" are wooden mallets, metal hammers, and wing dividers. All around the 50-100 pence mark.

David Charlesworth's books are excellent, and most economically read by going to your local library (we are in money saving mode here, aren't we?)

BugBear

 

[Alf]

Superb advice Alf.

Steady, lad... :shock: Pop over to WoodNet where I'm busy disagreeing with you first! :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[bugbear]

Superb advice Alf.

Steady, lad... :shock: Pop over to WoodNet where I'm busy disagreeing with you first! :lol:

Cheers, Alf

The only disagreement is over EXACTLY how hard the wood needs to be to hold a given thread; I'm not offended (quite) that easily. :roll:

BugBear

 

[Alf]

I'm not offended (quite) that easily. :roll:

Must try harder...? :wink:

 

[Mike B]

Starting as a real beginner, I have to say that Alf is absolutely on the money here

Sharp is the biggest single most helpful thing

It took me ages to discover what sharp(ish - I'm pretty sure my tools are still nowhere near as sharp as they could be) is and what a difference getting somewhere near it makes.

Mike

 

[engineer one]

as a lesser mortal i must confirm much of what alf has said, but there are
a couple of things to consider.

marking gauges although they are valuable later to start with
there is much to be said for making your own jigs, they are more accurate
and simpler to understand, also less likely to be diverted by wood
fibres.

just one marking knife will do to start.
not sure about the ryobi. better i think to look at the
lidl type saws or a normal ryobi, can't see the value of the
depth adjuster

the ice bear sharpening kit is definately a good starting point
and the veritas mk 2 gives a much simpler repeatability.

i think there are other and better places for chisels, and alf maybe
right to stick with only two to start with. or check out lidl again, they
aint bad for less than a tenner (alf will show you on sat!)

as for the vice, why a vice at all?

why not start with a fixed dowel, and some wedges in the bench you
are going to make second, actually if you follow scrit's advice,
buy a cheapo B&D workmate, and you get free plastic dogs
that you can use later too, you can also use the tops as guides for
a later workbench top.

axminster are not bad, but depending upon where you live, there may be
better places for your start up, since you have many of the tools
that many do not, i.e. measuring bits and pieces.

good luck
paul :wink:

 

[newbieblyth]

OK my birthday came and went, and I was a lucky boy, not only did I get most of hand tool / sharpening / marking wish list I also got a respectable table saw (well I think it is OK anyway)

here is a picture of my loot so far:

includes an ice bear kit, veritas honing guide, 3 in 1 marking gauge, Stanley block plane, some chisels, some clamps and clamp heads and a Aldi biscuit jointer.

I also have some cash to spend too. So I will probably car boot for a woodworking vice and a jack plane. Also perhaps buy a better blade for the saw.

Does anyone have any books or recommended links for table saw use that are aimed at the "safe" UK way of working?

 

[Scrit]

Does anyone have any books or recommended links for table saw use that are aimed at the "safe" UK way of working?

Not specifically for the table saw, but there's F.E.Sherlock's book "Machine Woodworking Technology for Hand Woodworkers" (Stobart Davies ISBN 085442 041 X) which is used as a teaching text for City & Guilds. It discusses cutting action, saw blade design, etc but has a scant 15 pages on the subject. There's also Nigel Voisey's "Wood Machining" (Stobart ISBN 0 85442 032 0), although unless it has been updated in recent years much of the data about tooling (especially on spindle moulders ) is now out of date (about 12 pages). That said you might be as well taking a look at a free brochure on the HSE website: Circular saw benches: safe working practices which contains much of the pertinent information

Scrit

 

[aqualex]

Hello newbieblyth,

Congratulations on your purchase(s). Don't worry, you'll get to spend that cash... What kind of vise are you thinking about?

Cheers,
Alex

 

[newbieblyth]

A bog standard woodworking vice - don't really have room for a tail vice. But following Alf's advice earlier in the thread I will probably buy an old one rather than a poorer quality modern equivalent