americans and blade guards

[sunnybob]

after several recent comments about them, heres the american viewpoint

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViL58JvRjvs

 

[AJB Temple]

Interesting video Bob. I thought he made some valid points bearing in mind how he uses the saw. But was also rather trite about the casual risks of reaching across a spinning blade or dropping things on it.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

after several recent comments about them, heres the american viewpoint

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViL58JvRjvs

I have seen that before - it's where all my bad habits come from. I don't like the push block thing he uses,or any push sticks of that style - it looks too easy to push past the blade, and then catch it on the way back, with exciting results. Anything that gets my hand that close is not good.

I learned the hard way that all work, once cut, is not allowed to be retrieved by being lifted over the blade. It goes the other way, either left or right, in a wide circle. Otherwise it goes straight up in the air, or in my face. Ask me how I know

 

[Deadeye]

Ask me how I know

Hey Neophyte, how do you know?

 

[sunnybob]

the problem arises from the fact that so many people use the saw for so many different things.
what might be an acceptable slight risk using a push block PROPERLY, turns into a major disaster if its used IMPROPERLY.
I have one of those yellow gripper's, Not cheap, but a superbly adaptable and secure method of pushing small items through. I use it mostly on the router table and bandsaw.
Awareness is everything. Training (or at least watching someone with safe experience) is highly preferable, but with todays climate of "i was a typist yesterday but today I'm buying a table saw because i saw it on youtube, experience can only be learnt the hard way.
For example, I learnt about router table cutting direction by launching a pound weight of hard wood out the workshop door and 20 foot down the drive :shock:
But my work experience taught me to assess the direction of travel and not stand right there anyway. =D>

 

[Chris152]

Just saw this on FB:
https://www.facebook.com/peterseftonfur ... 568768097/
The complete opposite of what you see on some of the youtube vids, and makes me think that if you're prepared to spend some money for training and essential kit you can do most things on a ts very safely. Maybe this is compromised when speed/ convenience/ economy is prioritised?

 

[woodbloke66]

Just saw this on FB:
https://www.facebook.com/peterseftonfur ... 568768097/
The complete opposite of what you see on some of the youtube vids, and makes me think that if you're prepared to spend some money for training and essential kit you can do most things on a ts very safely. Maybe this is compromised when speed/ convenience/ economy is prioritised?

Peter does everything properly; it's not difficult when you see the right way to go about it - Rob

 

[transatlantic]

if you're prepared to spend some money for training and essential kit you can do most things on a ts very safely

Coming from the hobbyist view ...

The average wood worker is not going to have the space or money for that kind of kit. And you don't have to have them to do things safely. You just have to accept that the cheaper ways are going to be slower and less convenient. For example you could quite easily make that cut with a track saw. It just takes a lot more time to set up safely, and there lies the problem. People take stupid risks because it's faster. I can't find the clamp, so I'll just hold it with my fingers. I can't think of a way to clamp this because things are in the way, so I'll just use my fingers. I think most of us will agree we've done this in the past. It all comes down to impatience and lazyness.

 

[AJB Temple]

It is easier when you have all the gear and lots of space as Peter does.

DIY and some trade users may well be inclined to take shortcuts and will often be working in confined spaces and with much lower spec kit. I ma not suggesting regulation, but the reality is any of us can go out and buy any tool and start using it without any training whatsoever. In may cases people will have no appreciation of the hazardous working practices they use.

It is really easy to think we are being careful and aware of hazards, but for a momentary distraction to be disastrous. Forums like this tend to attract people who are pretty aware. They are generally not the ones who will chop a finger off or lose an eye. No idea what the solution is.

I have seen supposed trades people do incredibly stupid things. For example a couple of years ago I had to rent a house for a year whilst we house hunted. The landlord hired a tradesperson to fit a replacement oven. This needed packing out and two numpties doing the fitting didn't have the right tools. They had seen my exceedingly modest and minuscule tool array in the garage and asked to borrow a circular saw. Like an idiot I agreed as I wanted the oven in (easy job but I was a tenant). Numpty number 1 (head numpty) proceeded to hold a plank of wood in one hand over his leg and operate the saw - (not on a bench or trestle) with the other hand. Quell surprise, the saw snatched the wood which flew at full tilt into the side of his van, and he was stood waving the saw about with it still running. Numpty 2 (master craftsmen apprentice I presume) then stepped in to take the spinning saw off him for some unknown reason. I unplugged my saw and took it off them causing strop from them and landlord. Memorable day.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Ask me how I know

Hey Neophyte, how do you know?

Well, Deadeye , what 'appened woz, I didn't have the blade guard on, and I picked up a heavy piece of wood to retreave it, and the weight of it pulled down onto the blade, much to my suprise...then the nice lady at the hospital etc..

Actually I got off lightly, with just a hole in the roof. Won't be doing it again

Some people learn by doing, others learn in less catastrophic ways. I am trying to be one of the latter. It isn't easy.

I

 

[transatlantic]

I have seen supposed trades people do incredibly stupid things. For example a couple of years ago I had to rent a house for a year whilst we house hunted. The landlord hired a tradesperson to fit a replacement oven. This needed packing out and two numpties doing the fitting didn't have the right tools. They had seen my exceedingly modest and minuscule tool array in the garage and asked to borrow a circular saw. Like an Silly person I agreed as I wanted the oven in (easy job but I was a tenant). Numpty number 1 (head numpty) proceeded to hold a plank of wood in one hand over his leg and operate the saw - (not on a bench or trestle) with the other hand. Quell surprise, the saw snatched the wood which flew at full tilt into the side of his van, and he was stood waving the saw about with it still running. Numpty 2 (master craftsmen apprentice I presume) then stepped in to take the spinning saw off him for some unknown reason. I unplugged my saw and took it off them causing strop from them and landlord. Memorable day.

Morons, if there was two of them, they could have used this trick

 

[graduate_owner]

I can see the American point of view in that the guard is sometimes in the way, but how much time does it take to remove and refit one? Not long on my Scheppach. So I remove it for grooving etc, but then it goes straight back on. I feel much happier with it on.

K

 

[transatlantic]

I can see the American point of view in that the guard is sometimes in the way, but how much time does it take to remove and refit one? Not long on my Scheppach. So I remove it for grooving etc, but then it goes straight back on. I feel much happier with it on.

K

It can depend on the quality of the saw though. The guards on the cheaper ones are so poor, it can be more dangerous with them on.

 

[Droogs]

i feel the difference in opinion about this is that for us it is very difficult to get a TS with an arbor that will take dado cutters. As a result we use saws in a way that allows for the use of guards and riving knives in place without too much inconvenience, whereas our cousins across the pond do as much as possible using the dado cutters/sleds as they can

 

[Trevanion]