Alcove Shelving - weight to bracket question

[mithadriel]

Hi folks,

I have a small alcove in my living room which I want to build some shelves in. I'm a novice in woodworking generally so please bear with me :|

The shelving isn't bought from a store, but rather we're looking to reutilise an old kitchen worktop. It's really good quality oak (I think?!) but as a result is quite heavy. I've had the wood trimmed to size, planed and cleaned up ready for fitting. I've also drilled out the holes to hold the brackets, and on a test fit have chiselled out the indent to hold the bracket.

The bracket type I want to use are the ones which allow for a 'floating' shelf appearance, very similar to these: https://goo.gl/BqaAME

The shelf is the following dimensions:
w x 140mm
d x 40mm
l x 1400mm

The problem I'm having is that the brackets are pretty loose on the wall, and whilst they hold the shelf - it dips and isn't level. I'm fairly sure this is because of either:

- The bracket isn't supporting the weight of the wood properly (not enough brackets, or brackets not big enough ..)
- The wall isn't supporting the bracket appropriately

Or possibly a combination of both

My question is - does anyone have a feel for what the cause might be, have you fitted similar weight to a wall - is there a better way to do it etc.

Hope you can help - really appreciate your time

Can post pictures if it will help.

Cheers
~ Mith

 

[ColeyS1]

I think the issue you have, is those brackets have no adjustment. They would be fine on a perfectly plumb wall, with a spot on drilled hole, but the reality is, the chances of both are slim. If you look at this bracket-
http://www.sdslondon.co.uk/concealed-sh ... lsrc=aw.ds
It allows a certain amount of adjustment for shelf tilt. As the spindle bit is wound clockwise, it presses against the bit that's screwed against the wall, which then causes the shelf to tilt up more.

Coley

Edit- just to add, that's an excellent use of an old worktop !!

 

[ColeyS1]

The type I'm holding are my preferred type. They need a hole drilling in the wall which adds to stability. If you look closely at the black bits of plastic, you'll notice that they don't look level.

Turning these will also help level up the shelf.
If you're stuck with the brackets you have, perhaps you could wedge something solid between the bracket and wall, until it's level.

It's a bit crude, but you could probably use slithers of cardboard.

 

[mithadriel]

Amazing thank you!

I'll buy a couple of those brackets and have a play to see how I get on - really appreciate the advice

 

[galleywood]

+1 For the brackets ColeyS1 links o in his post.
I used them for a floating shelf (albeit small) to display a sculpture.

 

[mithadriel]

Slight follow on question - what size screws/rawl plugs would you suggest to hold that sort of weight ?

P.s - pictures: https://imgur.com/a/zRxgU

 

[ColeyS1]

Amazing thank you!

I'll buy a couple of those brackets and have a play to see how I get on - really appreciate the advice

Glad to help.
You could really do with those brackets being nearer the ends. For that length, I'd say 3 minimum, but seeing as the holes are already there, might be easier to just use for.
If it's going into concrete block I'd probably use something like a 5x60mm for good measure with a red rawl plug. The extra length will go past the plaster (tap the rawl plug in 1/2 inch or so) so you get to the decent solid stuff.
The shelf look good !!!
Coley

 

[ColeyS1]

You're quite lucky you've got a corner for it to go up against.
Slightly off topic, but if you really wanted to 'belt n braces' it and have a few tools, you could add a hidden batten support in the end.

Fix/secure the batten to the wall, then the shelf would slide over it.- fully supporting the front edge would make it alot more rigid.
Welcome to the forum also. Always good seeing what other people are up to

 

[mithadriel]

http://www.sdslondon.co.uk/concealed-sh ... lsrc=aw.ds
It allows a certain amount of adjustment for shelf tilt. As the spindle bit is wound clockwise, it presses against the bit that's screwed against the wall, which then causes the shelf to tilt up more.

These arrived today - there are three shelves to go in the alcove so I bought 9. 3 per shelf as oppose to my original plan of two (I'll re-drill them). Fingers crossed they do the job!

I've not got home to play with them yet - but I'm not quite following how these help the shelf tilt? The pin that screws in seems to sit flush with the back plate ... maybe it'll become obvious when I fit them to the wall

 

[ColeyS1]

If you wind the pin clockwise, it should force it to bend upwards. You'll need a spanner cause it'll be tight. 3 per shelf will be ideal !
Coley
Edit- pic added

 

[mithadriel]

Ah I see ... god that must require a fair bit of oomph to bend that metal. Will invest in a spanner

 

[Sheffield Tony]

That view is a useful one. The width of the shelf is about ten times the width of the plate that is screwed to the wall. Ten times the leverage, meaning that the tension pulling the screws out, and the force pressing the bottom edge of the bracket into the plaster on the wall will be ten times the weight of the shelf and anything you put on it. I've always thought that those brackets are an awful idea.

 

[ColeyS1]

Ah I see ... god that must require a fair bit of oomph to bend that metal. Will invest in a spanner

I really went to town on that bracket to demonstrate, but yeah, i used a tiny 4inch adjustable and it did take some effort. I can't imagine you'd need to wind it any where near that much though

Alot of it will be down to how accurately your holes are drilled in the shelf.
If you have one available a half inch chisel in a morticer makes it easy peasy.
Makes it even easier if you make the hole wider than it needs to be.

 

[ColeyS1]

That view is a useful one. The width of the shelf is about ten times the width of the plate that is screwed to the wall. Ten times the leverage, meaning that the tension pulling the screws out, and the force pressing the bottom edge of the bracket into the plaster on the wall will be ten times the weight of the shelf and anything you put on it. I've always thought that those brackets are an awful idea.

I agree. I'd sooner overkill and go for several brackets, decent gauge screws, perhaps even a bead of adhesive along the back edge of the shelf to help. Probably the width of your shelf will govern whether they are succesful or not.The ones with the prong would definitely help, but for narrow shelves I'm sure the others will be fine.
Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[mithadriel]

Makes it even easier if you make the hole wider than it needs to be.

Funny. When I did the first mount using the other brackets, I had issues getting them lined up and thought "God I must really suck at this" ... it never crossed my mind to make the entry points for the spindle wider to make my life easier. Light bulb moment!

I don't have much more in the way of tools beyond a small chisel and hammer (and the drill of course). I dare say if most people looked at the work I've done they'd be horrified, but it seems to be working so ...

 

[LBCarpentry]

You're quite lucky you've got a corner for it to go up against.
Slightly off topic, but if you really wanted to 'belt n braces' it and have a few tools, you could add a hidden batten support in the end.

Fix/secure the batten to the wall, then the shelf would slide over it.- fully supporting the front edge would make it alot more rigid.
Welcome to the forum also. Always good seeing what other people are up to

This........is the only & true way!

 

[ColeyS1]

Makes it even easier if you make the hole wider than it needs to be.

Funny. When I did the first mount using the other brackets, I had issues getting them lined up and thought "God I must really suck at this" ... it never crossed my mind to make the entry points for the spindle wider to make my life easier. Light bulb moment!

I don't have much more in the way of tools beyond a small chisel and hammer (and the drill of course). I dare say if most people looked at the work I've done they'd be horrified, but it seems to be working so ...

Everybody's gotta start somewhere. When you get to the 3rd shelf, you'll be able to do it in your sleep !
You can do a heck of a lot with a few tools. I've got a few friends that can't even wire a plug, or open a tin of paint :lol:
You planning on getting them up over the weekend ?
Coley




Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[LBCarpentry]

Makes it even easier if you make the hole wider than it needs to be.

Funny. When I did the first mount using the other brackets, I had issues getting them lined up and thought "God I must really suck at this" ... it never crossed my mind to make the entry points for the spindle wider to make my life easier. Light bulb moment!

I don't have much more in the way of tools beyond a small chisel and hammer (and the drill of course). I dare say if most people looked at the work I've done they'd be horrified, but it seems to be working so ...

Everybody's gotta start somewhere. When you get to the 3rd shelf, you'll be able to do it in your sleep !
You can do a heck of a lot with a few tools. I've got a few friends that can't even wire a plug, or open a tin of paint :lol:
You planning on getting them up over the weekend ?
Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

My god if I had a penny for every time something didn't work first time....

Well, I wouldn't be messing about with woody things - i'd be drinking cocktails at the bongo la go go

You'll be so used trial, error and adjustment in the end it just becomes second nature and expected on nearly everything