Advice required

[GlenysE]

Hi Folks

I have a little DIY project coming along, I will try not to bore you with this background information but here goes anyway.

I am a little frustrated with dealing with manufactures not answering my e-mails and retail outlets referring me to the manufacturers.

I would like to make a Chinchilla house using wood that is not toxic to them, many woods are but some are not. I thought I would use Box joints to avoid using glue, screws ets

There are a number of manufacturers who make Box and Finger joint sets, Freud, Oshlun to name but a few. They are not inexpensixe typically £100 or more for a staked DADO
Most of those I can find are made in the U.S. and require an Arbor size of 5/8"i.e. Imperial size

However most of the manufacturers of Table Top saws are made in Europe i.e Einhell, DeWalt etc
these are manufactured to Metric dimensions and the Saw blades are oftem quoted at 30mm hole in the centre. Presumably the Arbor is 30mm to accommodate the hole in the centre of the Saw blade.

If I buy a European manufactured Table Top Saw I will not be able to use Box or Finger joint sets from the U.S. And may have to resort to making Box Joints using a single blade. If I was using a hand saw, there are saws that provide a 'rip' cut i.e. general woodworking or there are saws that provide a 'fine' cut, this does not seem to apply to Table Top saws as I have asked for advice on which blade to buy.


My Question to all you woodworking type people


If I make Box Joints using Box and Finger Joint Sets, which Sets are compatable with Table Top saws i.e. The arbor size of the saw must match the Blade.

or

If I use a single blade Table Top Saw to create Box Joints, are there any blades I should use for fine cutting and not the usuall 'Rip' cut blades, which probably result in poor quality joints


Well thank you for your time, and any advice you can give me would be appreciated.

Woodworking is not a hobby of mine, but I can usually make most things


Regards - Tony Edwards


p.s. I probably should have proof read this message, but sadly the battery on my laptop needs recharging. appologies for any typo's

 

[Trainee neophyte]

I assume you are talking about a stacked dado set for a table saw? As I understand it, anything produced for the EU has an arbour too short to take a dado blade set. They are not banned as such - you just can't fit them to any table saws manufactured for EU markets. I imagine people better placed than me can confirm that this is the case (or prove me wrong - I have no problem with being wrong, it happens a lot).

Are you planning on making lots of chinchilla boxes, or just a one off? You can certainly make finger joints using a standard blade - you just make several passes to cut away the waste one kerf-width as time. Tedious, but eminently doable. Your enthusiasm may run out if you are doing it for 8 hours a day, 7days a week, but as an occasional thing, not a problem.

 

[John Brown]

I'm no expert, but as I understand things, rip cut doesn't mean coarse or rough, it simply refers to cutting with the grain, as opposed to cross cut, which is across the grain. You can certainly get both types of blade for table saws, and indeed some blades will do both, albeit with a degree of compromise. Dado sets don't seem to be much of a thing in the UK, maybe because they have to be used without blade crown guards, which is frowned upon in Europe. If you want to make box joints, you might consider a router table and a jig.

 

[Rorschach]

How are you going to secure the box joints without glue?

 

[Trevanion]

The main problem with European saws is that the arbour isn't long enough to accept more than one blade, it's usually 2mm or so in length with a flange and the blade is held in place by screwing another flange to the arbour. Really only the earlier Wadkins and some other machines had arbours that were long enough to accept spindle tooling, it's more frowned upon these days due to regulations about machines having to come to a complete stop in less than 10 seconds and this is difficult to achieve with heavy tooling such as adjustable groovers or dado stacks with a high momentum. You can get some modern machines with longer spindles but that's usually on the very expensive end of the spectrum.

Whilst 30mm bore Dado sets are available in this country from certain suppliers, without the correctly set up machine you won't be able to run them because of the short arbour and they require at least 2HP to run efficiently with a couple of blades, 3HP if you're using the whole set. The best you're probably going to get on a budget is a grooving saw blade such as this CMT one from Scott and Sargeant: https://www.scosarg.com/cmt-240-grooving-sawblade-d-180-d-35-b-5-z-18, it only cuts 5mm at a time (a 6mm blade can be had also and smaller sizes) but it does cut a flat bottom rather than other standard rip/crosscutting blades which might cut a V shaped or curved bottom. If you had a good jig set up on the saw it wouldn't take too long with a single blade, there are many designs to choose from.

 

[GlenysE]

Thanks for all your help and advice folks

It makes all makes sense, using DADO blades needs more power, using DIY Table Top saws really only intended for 1 blade, therefore Arbor is short.

I will probably purchase a £100.00 Table Top saw from Toolstation or Screwfix and cut the joints individually then I may just pin the joints with a small dowel to hold them together.


Once again thanks to you all

Regards - Tony Edwards

 

[marcros]

why not just screw them together? counterbore and plug the screws if necessary.

 

[Zeddedhed]

Axminster are currently selling a sliding table saw outfit specifically designed to take a Dado set (which they also sell).

As I understand it the problem with Stacked Dado Heads was always about stopping the mass of spinning metal within the 10 secs required - too much inertia for standard braking systems or something.

I don't profess to have any real knowledge of them but I do know that they're not banned. Woodford tooling used to modify one of their Xcaliburs to suit Dado stacks. Not sure if they still do.

Lot of money just to build a Chinchilla house though.

 

[GlenysE]

Yeah

I did think about screwing the sides together, but they are rodents they chew anything, we have one with permanent health problem possible caused by inter breading ????

Once they chew through the wood I do not want them injuring them selves on bits of steel screw
knowing my luck they would injure themselves and guess who would get the blame.

I have come to the conclusion I will probably buy a Table Top Saw from Screwfix or Toolstation for about £100.00 and cut the box joints individually if it is slightly loose I will drill and tap a few dowels (made from Apple wood) into the joints to stiffen it up. I have used dowels before to make something for them, but because the Apple wood is a slightly different diameter it all has to be sanded down to make a tight fit, then tapped in with a mallet.

I may need to made a box for them 2-3 times a year (they can live to 20-25yrs) I am trying to find a consistent method

Bye for now

Regards - Tony

 

[CHJ]

Good luck trying to keep up with the housing of them, especially if you have breeding pairs separated.
About the only thing Chinchillas won't chew their way out of if they are so minded is Galvanised steel pens.
I know for a fact that 20 Gage Duralumin is not a barrier to night time boredom for them if they can find an edge.
Once out, electric cables, socket facias, plastic buckets, skirting boards, chair and stool legs can all be demolished within a couple of hours.