Advice regarding an eBay purchase (this is a current problem, so advice today is required- if possible)

[RobinBHM]

Hi Adam,
I was interested in your comments about the eBay procedure as I was left with the clear impression from @Phil Pascoe that there would be no satisfaction from deal with them. I actually was disappointed in his response because I had only had good dealings with PayPal.
Anyway, I have checked and rechecked my numbers and even allowing for customs duty (payable on all imports but waived under Policy to imports over $400 NZ), shipping and GST, I am still on the good side of the total. As a result, I have offered him a deal - refund me $15 USD and send the set as purchased, less the fence. He has accepted but told me he will send cash in with the router!! Does this seem odd to you? @Derek Cohen, what do you think of him saying he won’t refund the $15 on the credit card? I just don’t understand it and it’s quite inconvenient to receive US dollar denominated mone. There is no call for US cash in New Zealand!

I thank everyone who took the time to respond, your input is appreciate. Robyn

what happens when the money “gets forgotten”

seems to me he know the fence was missing, advertised it in the listing with fence as a complete item is more attractive to bidders knowing he would “offer a discount” to the winning bid.

Surely you wouldn’t “lose a fence” - sounds like bulls hit to me

 

[Gordon Tarling]

If you originally paid with Paypal, then he can easily refund a part of that payment, but if you paid by other means I'm not so sure. Was the fence shown in the original listing photos? If so, it's hard to see how he could have lost it.

G.

 

[hairy]

You say he has good feedback but only as a buyer.
No feedback as a seller means he hasn't used ebay to sell (unless he has several accounts) so may be slightly unsure of how and what he should now do. That's very different to a seller with a history of negative feedback as some do.
Cash in the parcel is not on, ebay will have no oversight of him doing that so you lose their protection to some extent.
Ebay only let me down once where I lost out, but I have bought via them a great deal.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Cancel the order and bid again when he re-lists. You will be bidding on a known item and might even get it for a lower cost as others might not bid without the fence.

 

[Sideways]

Cash in the parcel is unacceptable. Just say "no, refund it to my paypal account".
If this continues, you should lodge the complaint with ebay. Like Adam, I have had ebay uphold the few cases I've had to lodge over several years of regular buying. The email trail gives them easy visibility of the whole saga and they judge on what they read. Usually in the buyers favour. They can't force the seller to complete, but if he's the one at fault, then let that be clear.
Let's face it, the next steps could be that he is equally cheap about the packaging. It arrives damaged or not at all and you have to chase ebay for a refund anyway.
But make him / ebay be the ones to cancel the sale by refusing anything you're unhappy with, like cash in the parcel.

 

[Shan]

Cash in the parcel is unacceptable. Just say "no, refund it to my paypal account".
If this continues, you should lodge the complaint with ebay. Like Adam, I have had ebay uphold the few cases I've had to lodge over several years of regular buying. The email trail gives them easy visibility of the whole saga and they judge on what they read. Usually in the buyers favour. They can't force the seller to complete, but if he's the one at fault, then let that be clear.
Let's face it, the next steps could be that he is equally cheap about the packaging. It arrives damaged or not at all and you have to chase ebay for a refund anyway.
But make him / ebay be the ones to cancel the sale by refusing anything you're unhappy with, like cash in the parcel.

I smell a rat! Very doubtful that you'll get the cash with the parcel and yes the hassle of $10 USD in NZ even if you did get the money. Insist that he credits you as re. Payment method. Good luck.

 

[Ollie78]

Contrary to what Phil says, I have always found ebay/ PayPal resolve issues very well and normally very quickly.

Ollie

 

[Lorenzl]

Good luck if you think ebay or Paypal will sort a problem out.

I had one problem with a ebay purchase not arriving and ebay sorted it within a couple of weeks.
I believe their terms have changed a bit since then as they were too biased towards the customer. Some customers were saying they had a problem even though they didn't to get their money back.

The seller does not have a leg to stand on if they say in their advert "includes a fence" but they are not sending one. Contact ebay and hopefully you have done all your communications through their messaging system which they can view.

 

[Keith Cocker]

Up until he said “cash in the parcel” I would have gone ahead with the deal but now I wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot barge pole.

 

[Richard_C]

Most good sellers, ebay or anywhere else, are organised, accurate listing, photos etc and get all the bits together before they advertise. This one sounds either disorganised or evasive, you will never know but whichever it is I wouldn't want to deal with them. You will hand over your money and wait with trepidation until the goods arrive, what will be in the box, what condition will it be in, will anything else be missing. Too stressful.

It depends a bit on your financial resources, if it turns out to be money wasted is it an annoyance or a disaster for you? What is your appetite for risk? (Mine is very low).

 

[Lard]

Cancel the order and bid again when he re-lists. You will be bidding on a known item and might even get it for a lower cost as others might not bid without the fence.

That‘s exactly what I was thinking.
When he resists it, log in as someone else and send him/ask a clear question as to what‘s included/what’s missing….even include some estimate of costs for replacing missing parts. His answer will then be able, I believe, to be read by everyone - hopefully putting them off.
I’ve also had some good experiences with PayPal refunds etc

 

[Yojevol]

I was in a similar situation recently with the sale of tools to a buyer in the US. My buyer requested the inclusion of a further tool after completion of the deal. We jointly agreed to cancel the transaction which the buyer initiated through the eBay procedure. The buyer got her payment back and I had to stand the eBay sale charge. We then went ahead with our own private transaction.
So my experience of the eBay cancellation procedure was a positive one. The whole exercise was so beneficial to both of us that I included a Christmas card in the package - the tools were a present for her husband.
Brian

 

[robgul]

You haven't said how you paid? - most ebay transactions are now managed by ebay themselves now that PayPal is a separate business. [ALWAYS pay via ebay rather PayPal or any other method]

As suggested above I would first ask the seller to cancel and refund the order as "not what was offered" and also tell ebay that the item is not as listed (i.e. open a dispute)

ebay invariably sides with the buyer in my experience (albeit limited) - they will notify the seller and put a hold on his payment (or his account if they've already paid him out) - the seller then has various options to negotiate the price with you or to approve a refund/cancellation.

Make sure all your communication with the seller is through the ebay message system to create a trail (the ebay teams read those messages in dispute matters)

 

[Vann]

Here in New Zealand it's illegal to send cash in the post. I'd guess that applies to parcels too.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Sideways]

You haven't said how you paid? - most ebay transactions are now managed by ebay themselves now that PayPal is a separate business. [ALWAYS pay via ebay rather PayPal or any other method]

As suggested above I would first ask the seller to cancel and refund the order as "not what was offered" and also tell ebay that the item is not as listed (i.e. open a dispute)

ebay invariably sides with the buyer in my experience (albeit limited) - they will notify the seller and put a hold on his payment (or his account if they've already paid him out) - the seller then has various options to negotiate the price with you or to approve a refund/cancellation.

Make sure all your communication with the seller is through the ebay message system to create a trail (the ebay teams read those messages in dispute matters)

One point I disagree on in this.
DO use paypal when buying on ebay.

It gives you a second layer of protection as many transactions are covered by paypal's own guarantee, over and above the ebay process.
XXXX You can even use a credit card to fund paypal in order to add a third layer of protection on larger purchases XXX (correction, no it doesn't)

I had an issue with a seller who sold many of a niche product that turned out to be of very poor quality. I was disappointed and asked to return it. He stood behind the "no returns" statement in his listing, which I challenged on the grounds that he was clearly a "trader" based on the custom product and many items sold. In the event. A trader can't refuse returns. Eventually I called in the ebay Concierge service. They said that at that point in the complaint they were unable to help and gave two pieces of advice:
1. Make a separate claim through paypal. This worked. The seller was obnoxious about it but was forced to refund. I lost out the return shipping cost, which I couldn't be bothered to fight over.
2. Sadly - don't try to be reasonable or accommodating in an ebay dispute as I did at first. Make a cold hard challenge with all facts set out from the beginning. Once ebay have made an adjudication, their system doesn't let them look at it a second time. You need a knock-out in the first round and that means a significantly not as described case: "I want the goods that I won at auction, or compensation of XX to my original form of payment (paypal account) to cover the cost to me of buying the missing item".
Then let ebay do their thing and if that means the transaction is cancelled and you are refunded, all you lose is use of your money for 3 weeks while they make this happen
The seller may well have spent your money already but ebay will reimburse you regardless.

 

[robgul]

One point I disagree on in this.
DO use paypal when buying on ebay.

It gives you a second layer of protection as many transactions are covered by paypal's own guarantee, over and above the ebay process. You can even use a credit card to fund paypal in order to add a third layer of protection on larger purchases.

I had an issue with a seller who sold many of a niche product that turned out to be of very poor quality. I was disappointed and asked to return it. He stood behind the "no returns" statement in his listing, which I challenged on the grounds that he was clearly a "trader" based on the custom product and many items sold. In the event. A trader can't refuse returns. Eventually I called in the ebay Concierge service. They said that at that point in the complaint they were unable to help and gave two pieces of advice:
1. Make a separate claim through paypal. This worked. The seller was obnoxious about it but was forced to refund. I lost out the return shipping cost, which I couldn't be bothered to fight over.
2. Sadly - don't try to be reasonable or accommodating in an ebay dispute as I did at first. Make a cold hard challenge with all facts set out from the beginning. Once ebay have made an adjudication, their system doesn't let them look at it a second time. You need a knock-out in the first round and that means a significantly not as described case: "I want the goods that I won at auction, or compensation of XX to my original form of payment (paypal account) to cover the cost to me of buying the missing item".
Then let ebay do their thing and if that means the transaction is cancelled and you are refunded, all you lose is use of your money for 3 weeks while they make this happen
The seller may well have spent your money already but ebay will reimburse you regardless.

I'm not 100% certain but I think ebay has changed the tems of payment fairly recently to force payment via ebay not PayPal? - that may be just for "Buy it now" deals which require immediate payment . . . it's worth looking at the terms to check.

However, my own view would be to keep everything within one fenced-off transaction with ebay - PayPal's protection seems rather woollier than ebay, and an other player brings a third party into things.

On the question of "No returns" - ebay seems very willing to override a seller's rights. I bought an item recently (about £30) that was very obviously not as listed - despite it being No returns ebay dealt with the matter in the resolution process - I sent the item back (with a despatch label provided) and got a 100% refund.

 

[okeydokey]

If the deal is good moneywise without the fence, then go ahead and allow him to send the item with (or not the refund he offers). If the item/price without the fence is not a great deal allow him to cancel the sale. All he has to say is item broken or missing and the sale is finished, ebay will automatically send a refund to you.

As others have said if you wish nothing to stop you bidding again and I suggest (I have done this successfully in the past) you bid a price that you would want to pay straight off (so you don't have to keep bidding a little more every day or so) -- then as other bids roll along yours will still remain top unless your bid is outbid. If no other bidder come close to yours then you only pay a nudge over the next closest bid (not the max you have bid)
If he sets a buy it now thats something else to consider.

 

[scholar]

The seller is messing you around with this strange offer of “cash in the parcel” and everyone who has said walk away is spot on I think. If you paid via eBay/PayPal, you are well covered, although if it has to go through dispute resolution, you are out of pocket for 6 weeks or so, I recall. I understand that you still consider that you got a bargain, but his cash proposal adds a concern that you might not even get the parcel at all. The safest thing is to open an eBay case in the resolution centre and ask for a full refund.

eBay’s only available resolution is cancellation and a refund - they do not act as a court of law. Legally, you could potentially have different remedies. I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that if the auction item is not as described, you could have a claim for “loss of bargain”, in which case you could sue for the difference in value between what was described and what was delivered - it is just a slippery get-out for the seller to offer to cancel as the auction is binding on him as soon as the hammer falls (the ebay auction closes). Obviously, you won’t pursue a small amount like this, but that is the principle (and based on experience, the court will require rigorous evidence of the shortfall in value, and make such adjustments as it considers appropriate, eg used vs new values etc).

Anyway, good luck!

Cheers

 

[Stevekane]

I think you should cancel the deal, refunding cash in the parcel, missing bits, its aggro you can probably live without,,,and when it arrives it doesnt work or more bits are missing,.what then with your complaint to ebay or paypal about a parcel of goods and cash,,,its all too much of a pain, you dont feel comfortable about it so get out whilst you can,,
Steve.

 

[TRITON]

Cash in the parcel is unacceptable. Just say "no, refund it to my paypal account".

I think theres an actual setting for partial refunds.

But either way it would probably be best to cancel, keep amicable, no need for either party to get a bit shouty. Couldn't find the fence, these things do happen, and im sure you'll either get something else later on, or even get something else for cheaper.

This now reminds me, wherever did i put my Lie Nielsen router fence