Advice please re: blade for 10" table saw

[CoolNik]

I would also recommend Freud as a 'go to' make. I'd put up with a blade on my B&D saw for so many years until I realized that less than 10 of the 24 'tips' was still in place

After some research, replaced it with a Freud - absolutely delighted.

Looking at Toolstation though, it seems Freud don't do a 25.4mm bore (at all) though reducers are available, you have to be sure that the correct thickness is observed. It also seems that they only do one 254mm OD but there are 9 at 250mm so using one of those you lose 1mm on the max DoC.

Trevanion's treatise is the best I've came across.
http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5266

Thanks for the link. I have one very dumb question, its one I have wondered about for some time, so here goes! When buying a saw blade for my table saw, assuming it fits, can I use the same blade for my hand held circular saw? What about my track saw? Is the use of the word "circular" mean any type of machinery that uses a round blade (again assuming it fits re: # of teeth, size of blade, size of arbor, kerf, etc.) or are the saw blades made for each specific type of machinery?

 

[CoolNik]

Time to go to specsavers

Yeah, I hear that they do hearing aids too!

 

[rob1693]

The stanley 45 using the slitting blade would be a safe way of producing thin strips with minimal material loss

 

[Ttrees]

Thanks for the link. I have one very dumb question, its one I have wondered about for some time, so here goes! When buying a saw blade for my table saw, assuming it fits, can I use the same blade for my hand held circular saw? What about my track saw? Is the use of the word "circular" mean any type of machinery that uses a round blade (again assuming it fits re: # of teeth, size of blade, size of arbor, kerf, etc.) or are the saw blades made for each specific type of machinery?

IIRC, Trevanion's post addresses these queries in the link.
He and others here, have much much more knowledge than myself regarding tablesaws and circular saws TBH.

Some hand held circular saws, like all well designed tablesaws, have a riving knife so a blade must be matched to this if so,
or vice versa should one have various thickness RK's for one.

What I can mention is for a compound mitre saw or radial arm saw, these must have a negative rake (teeth leaning away rather than towards) because the timber can climb onto the blade, and off the bed of the machine, which can be extremely dangerous.

I try and not use my TS for a many reasons,
not being in the best of form for working with a dangerous machine (look up the safety stats for the USA, used to be around sixty thousand reported accidents a year involving circular saws,
seems like less these days due to the sawstop tech, but I may be wrong about my impression of this, could be the pandemic which put a halt on construction?

Still working on my bandsaw, and not got round to souping up my TS,
going to do quite a bit of work to it, hopefully soon enough,
i.e outfeed table needs sorting, fence could be improved,
Keeping my eye out for some lexan to make proper crown guard,
shaw guards for trench cuts (I reclaim timbers and need to do this)
Still only have 13a plugs, so no extraction can be used yet, (wanting to build a decent extractor which would be much better than something off the shelf when I can afford it)
The timber I work with is toxic/irritant, and a sensitizer
and likely more reasons than this which doesn't come to mind.

If you are taking advice from anyone, I'd make sure that you get UK advice i.e 450mm pushsticks,
and not those little shoe types which is common to see on the utubes,
and if strictly UK stuff, then hopefully not someone who's using some dangerous toy (that may only be a temporary deal) which IMO doesn't make one keen to go the whole hog regarding every single thing which could be done, but likely won't be.

If advice is taken from someone with a sawstop, then you'd better get one too,
though it's not safe practice either, as a piece of timber shot back at the user can still amputate limbs, (hence the decently long 450mm pushsticks)
which might seem awkward on a machine which has the blade so close to the user.

Roy Sutton would be one video to watch,


Steve Maskery has quite a lot of videos also, too many to link really,
here's one which is one way to skin the cat


Have a look at this compilation of danger, most of it's a bit ridiculous, but might be insightful
http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7161&hilit=dangerous
I think that's enough ranting from myself, hopefully those who've been a bit brave in the past, gets the impression of what could happen with improper use.

All the best
Tom

 

[pulleyt]

Thanks so much for your reply and for detailing your practices for preparing the thin strips. Would you consider sharing the details of the jig that you use with your track saw, as I had considered using my track saw but was concerned about getting constant repeatable cuts. Also, I would love to know what kind of planning jig you are referring to when you speaking of the finessing the short strips, as I constantly am tossing strips where I have left a blood trail from my nicely planed fingertips!!
I had found a table saw blade that has a kerf of 0.102" and there are other blades in this same series with a kerf of 0.118" - I understand that these for part of a new range of blades by CMT - branded as ITK Xtreme saw blades. The sales information on a vendors website reads "All blades are thin-kerf industrial quality blades and will deliver outstanding cut, minimal stock removal and the least possible stress on saws." I am not promoting these blades and have not yet used one but prior to getting the information about the Accu Slice system, I was going to purchase one of these blades.

Here's a link to the track saw jig I referred to. I'll detail the hand plane thicknessing jig later.

 

[CoolNik]

IIRC, Trevanion's post addresses these queries in the link.
He and others here, have much much more knowledge than myself regarding tablesaws and circular saws TBH.

Some hand held circular saws, like all well designed tablesaws, have a riving knife so a blade must be matched to this if so,
or vice versa should one have various thickness RK's for one.

What I can mention is for a compound mitre saw or radial arm saw, these must have a negative rake (teeth leaning away rather than towards) because the timber can climb onto the blade, and off the bed of the machine, which can be extremely dangerous.

I try and not use my TS for a many reasons,
not being in the best of form for working with a dangerous machine (look up the safety stats for the USA, used to be around sixty thousand reported accidents a year involving circular saws,
seems like less these days due to the sawstop tech, but I may be wrong about my impression of this, could be the pandemic which put a halt on construction?

Still working on my bandsaw, and not got round to souping up my TS,
going to do quite a bit of work to it, hopefully soon enough,
i.e outfeed table needs sorting, fence could be improved,
Keeping my eye out for some lexan to make proper crown guard,
shaw guards for trench cuts (I reclaim timbers and need to do this)
Still only have 13a plugs, so no extraction can be used yet, (wanting to build a decent extractor which would be much better than something off the shelf when I can afford it)
The timber I work with is toxic/irritant, and a sensitizer
and likely more reasons than this which doesn't come to mind.

If you are taking advice from anyone, I'd make sure that you get UK advice i.e 450mm pushsticks,
and not those little shoe types which is common to see on the utubes,
and if strictly UK stuff, then hopefully not someone who's using some dangerous toy (that may only be a temporary deal) which IMO doesn't make one keen to go the whole hog regarding every single thing which could be done, but likely won't be.

If advice is taken from someone with a sawstop, then you'd better get one too,
though it's not safe practice either, as a piece of timber shot back at the user can still amputate limbs, (hence the decently long 450mm pushsticks)
which might seem awkward on a machine which has the blade so close to the user.

Roy Sutton would be one video to watch,


Steve Maskery has quite a lot of videos also, too many to link really,
here's one which is one way to skin the cat


Have a look at this compilation of danger, most of it's a bit ridiculous, but might be insightful
http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7161&hilit=dangerous
I think that's enough ranting from myself, hopefully those who've been a bit brave in the past, gets the impression of what could happen with improper use.

All the best
Tom

Tom, thank you for speaking plainly to me, I do really appreciate your taking the time to write and also provide the links to the videos. I have watched the video about the thin rip jig, purchased the plan and will be making it in the next few days.

One of the issues that I have with You Tube is not knowing who to believe/follow as it seems as almost all the chaps think they are experts, chasing views/money/name recognition and maybe other things that I have not thought of! I tend to follow the UK videos/web sites more than the USA in part because of the different safety requirements. As I am physically disabled myself, I do not intend to to become the victim of further injuries due to incorrect use of woodworking tools, hence my never ending stream of stupid questions seeking to clarify my understanding.

thanks again, Robyn

 

[Ttrees]

Thanks to folks here, and those whom have emigrated to "the other place"/club linked
It's where I truly learned of the dangers of the TS.
Regarding hand held circular saws, I'm not really upto speed TBH.

I consider it an obligation to promote safety, and will dig out some older threads from few years back, as there's always a constant stream of newcomers to the use of the machine,
and youtube is sorta turning into tiktok these days, so I can definitely see where you're coming from.

Page one is often skipped over on many publications, which entails that the work needs to be surfaced on face and edge prior to use, and not rocking about.
This is more important when it comes to finicky stuff like Kumiko and using a "glue line rip" blade.

No trouble to me, as I spend more time on this forum than in the workshop due to being ill,
hence why I encourage big bandsaws instead, with large tables making one further away from the blade, as I get dizzy sometimes.

Stupid doesn't ask questions, and this forum, and the pro's club is where you will get the best info.
Trevanion uploaded that Roy Sutton video BTW, (the missing finger was by some impeller accident, and not by the TS, IIRC.
and I haven't seen anyone else use a Shaw guard on a TS, so for that I am grateful.

I will try and find those juicy threads which I've learned much from, some of which which were heated debates, (mostly concerning terminology regarding the difference between what's an "accident" and what's an "incident")
I reckon there's at least three memorable ones which are certainly worth reading

Some things from the pro's might often be regarded as "known"
i.e no mollycoddling, why didn't you read the (outdated IMO) HSE articles,
which don't really explain anything,
i.e the reasoning for the 450mm length of the pushsticks is because they don't want you to get your hand into the dangerzone, (that of which distance may be up for debate)
but the universal UK consensus, is not to have your hand over the blade at any time,
hence the 450mm which could be longer (I could be mistaken, those HSE bits are vague at best,
yet still must be adhered to by law)
The idea being one can clear the blade with the stick, and still be a fair ways away from the blade.
What that is, might spark some debate.

I don't consider those benchtop machines any safer than my 12" cast iron saw,
seeing as one is so close to the blade.
If I had to use one, I'd consider flip down infeed aswell as outfeed, so I could use 450mm pushsticks.

(and for anyone who finds flaws in my writings, I'm always up for a thoroughly harsh scolding,
as I'd like to think I have such respect for the TS)

The link to the HSE advice, possibly more than this within the link.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/ripsaw.htm
And for those who've maybe thought that sixty thousand reported injuries per anim was a typo,
no it's true, fair enough there is much reasons why, but a large proportion of those is what I'm talking about, and a lot of those who've suffered injury, are likely a bit smarter than myself.

I'll try finding the links soon, outta beans now though, hopefully they are easily retrievable.
Some scary stories from very very experienced folks!

All the best
Tom

 

[Mallymal123]

I need to purchase a blade for my Bosch GTS 10 XC table saw that is permanently mounted into my workbench. I specifically require this blade to cut thin strips (v. thin such for Kumiko) from solid wood pieces - oak, ash, maple, pine etc. We are advised to purchase a sawblade with a "narrow kerf" if someone could make a suggestion, it would be very helpful! The saw will have to be 254mm with a bore of 25.4mm.

I don't know what kerf the blade should have, nor do I know or mind what make it should be nor the teeth details. Please would someone give me some guidance about what make is reasonable quality and give me your thoughts on the other details that I need to know in order to purchase a saw blade.

I won't hold anyone responsible for your suggestions, rather I will be pleased o receive a number of suggestions in case I have difficulties in getting a specific brand in NZ.

Cheers chaps!

Hey Nik,
Be sure to check the size! I’ve got the Bosch gts10xc and mine is 30mm bore, not 25.4 as you quote in your question!

 

[Sachakins]

Brilliant idea! I had not even thought of using the bandsaw but have followed your link, viewed the video and now am in "on-line discussion" with the nice folks at Accu Slice. Thanks so much for the prompt. In addition, I will be changing to Freud blades for my table saw. Cheers

The accu-slice youtube channel is worth a trawl through the older videos, he gives great tips and solutions to, his glue jig for clamping and laminating many pieces is super simple, but it's a "why didn't I think of it before moment". He is very thorough in why he makes things as he does, and it helps understand the logic behind the range he makes for the accu-slice add ons.

His dizzy bowl turnings are fantastic, as is his segmented work and the jigs he uses along the way.

I think John is a retired scientist, hence his attention to the processes behind his builds,

 

[CoolNik]

Hey Nik,
Be sure to check the size! I’ve got the Bosch gts10xc and mine is 30mm bore, not 25.4 as you quote in your question!

Hmmmm.. here comes the stupid questions again.....I have gone to the Bosch NZ site, referenced here at GTS 10 XC Table Saw | Bosch Professional and looked at the specs which seem to be stating that SAW BLADE BORE is 25.4mm. Is there a difference between the saw blade bore and the Table Saw bore? Just wondering but I am guessing that the "hole" in the saw blade has to be a different size than the metal piece that that saw is place over?

My next question concerns the saw blade that I will purchase subject to the approval of several of you chaps that have been helping me including you ,Tom @Ttrees and @Sachakins. The following is the blade that I think fits my TS and the general blade most suitable for the woodwork that I will be doing mostly - making frames for Kumiko pictures and lamps, for the marquetry projects. I will be using the bandsaw mostly for the fine cutting including cutting the veneers. So, drum roll.....the TS blade I think will work for me is the Freud P410T: 10" Thin Kerf Next Generation Premier Fusion General Purpose Blade - what do you chaps think?
Hopefully, this will be my final question on this topic (I have alot of reading to do before I ask any more questions!) what is the connect between Freud and Diablo? When I was searching saw blades, some of the photos showed blades that were red, with DIABLO in big letters and Freud in smaller letters - are they one in the same??

Cheers chaps!

 

[Sachakins]

Don't know that particular blade. I got Freud F03FS09894 250mm x 30mm x 24T/40T Twin Pack Table Saw Blades for £42.75 from FFX in June 2022 and they've been great.

on axminster site the BOSCH GTS 10 XC 254MM TABLE SAW specifications show 30mm bore for blades.

 

[baldkev]

+1 on the bandsaw suggestion.
Just to add to your dilemma, just because your saw can take a 10" blade, you dont have to fit one. I.e, you could get an 8" or smaller as long as the arbour size is correct and #as previously mentioned# the riving knife thickness falks between blade plate and kerf thickness.... i say this because you arent using the blade for deep cuts and a smaller diameter thin blade will deflect less than a 10"

Thank you for the kind comment - but I'm a long haired he

You could have pulled!

Edit to add: if op is in NZ the arbour might be different? I have no idea if metric/ imperial would be the difference or if a 30mm bore hete is used to stop dado stacks from america being used?

 

[Ttrees]

+1 on the bandsaw suggestion.
Just to add to your dilemma, just because your saw can take a 10" blade, you dont have to fit one. I.e, you could get an 8" or smaller as long as the arbour size is correct and #as previously mentioned# the riving knife thickness falks between blade plate and kerf thickness.... i say this because you arent using the blade for deep cuts and a smaller diameter thin blade will deflect less than a 10"

Not had a good look at a saw like this, so perhaps others can answer, but presumably a smaller blade may not suit,
i.e guessing there wouldn't be (8mm IIRC, must make certain of that though) between the RK and the blade, which the UK HSE suggests.

I don't have experience with multiple saw blades, so won't advise.
All I can say is, seemingly you pays yer money, you get more carbide, which can be sharpened.
Trevanion has posted in detail about this, I don't say that lightly, tis the best I've seen.

You could have pulled!

Edit to add: if op is in NZ the arbour might be different? I have no idea if metric/ imperial would be the difference or if a 30mm bore hete is used to stop dado stacks from america being used?

I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest, perhaps they also have longer arbors for dado stacks.

Forgive my ignorance if so, but regarding suppliers, I've often seen folks mentioning Henry Bros on the Aussie "woodworking forums.com" they likely have a good selection, (pure guess)

I will try dig good posts regarding safety, and stories from seasoned knowledgeable folks here, when I get some time to search for it, all stuff from good few years back, so mightn't be that easy.
I might give a link to it here, because I've noticed an influx of people seem to have bought/thinking of buying tablesaws recently, so better to make a more general safety thread for the masses.

edit: not found the ones I was on about, but something which I was suggesting an issue with small machines...
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...walt-745-after-near-miss.139198/#post-1611472
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/health-safety-has-it-gone-to-far.96132/
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/just-use-the-blade-guard.129299/
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/success-and-disaster.14909/
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/how-do-these-cuts-not-cause-kick-back.134376/
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/push-sticks-again.134819/page-2#post-1541064
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/table-saw-safety.135973/
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...u’re-using-a-table-saw-you-need-these.129307/
Just some, but don't think I found the one I was looking for.


Tom

 

[pulleyt]

Also, I would love to know what kind of planning jig you are referring to when you speaking of the finessing the short strips, as I constantly am tossing strips where I have left a blood trail from my nicely planed fingertips!!

I've just posted a thread about my small parts planing jig. Hope it is of use.

 

[Sachakins]

As a Kity bandsaw owner I'd be very interested in your version of the Accu Slice if you're willing to post details.

Sorry not upload photo, I'll be back in my shop tomorrow, Sunday, I'll get the photos done then for you.

 

[Reffc]

If the sections you are cutting are smaller than 70mm deep, I'd echo the comments above and use a smaller diameter blade if thin kerf is called for. Freud are ok but I rate UK made Shark blades better. They sell a 210mm (30mm bore) thin Kerf 40T blade which would be ideal. I started out with a Bosch GTS10 XC and replaced the blade it came with for an Axminster Premium 60T professional blade. Wasn't overly impressed tbh. Great when new but the Shark blade I subsequently replaced it with (80T professional) had more carbide on the teeth, ran just as true and lasted longer for half the price. Freud are ok, good for the money and I have 2.8mm Kerf Freud blades now too but the Shark blades are the ones I go for if I want a blade that will last and outperform many more expensive options. Freud sell a 2.4mm Kerf 48T 216mm blade available from screwfix for £39. That and their rip blade should cover everything you need.

 

[Ttrees]

If the sections you are cutting are smaller than 70mm deep, I'd echo the comments above and use a smaller diameter blade if thin kerf is called for. Freud are ok but I rate UK made Shark blades better. They sell a 210mm (30mm bore) thin Kerf 40T blade which would be ideal. I started out with a Bosch GTS10 XC and replaced the blade it came with for an Axminster Premium 60T professional blade. Wasn't overly impressed tbh. Great when new but the Shark blade I subsequently replaced it with (80T professional) had more carbide on the teeth, ran just as true and lasted longer for half the price. Freud are ok, good for the money and I have 2.8mm Kerf Freud blades now too but the Shark blades are the ones I go for if I want a blade that will last and outperform many more expensive options. Freud sell a 2.4mm Kerf 48T 216mm blade available from screwfix for £39. That and their rip blade should cover everything you need.

Is there adjustability of the saws riving knife for this though?...
Not tried any adjustability on my machine, as I made my RK to match the specified blade size,
and don't have other sizes to see if it were suitable.
I don't think I've seen an arrangement on any machine to allow for such use.


Is it just a matter of making one up for whichever diameter you choose, to suit that 8mm gap around the blade, in which the HSE recommends?

Tom

 

[Reffc]

I have less than 8mm to my blade, more like 5mm and that's perfectly fine and safe. You should find adjustability on the Bosch but whether there's enough I can't remember. I do remember it was pretty easy to adjust and remove when I wanted to make rebate cuts on the sled. I would sooner go by what the machine manufacturer recommends than what someone at the HSE recommends.

 

[Ruskie7]

Hi, it's a basic simple build really. I'll get a few photos of it and send them over tomorrow.

Can you send me some pictures too please as I’m looking to make something similar.

 

[Soulmiester]

I need to purchase a blade for my Bosch GTS 10 XC table saw that is permanently mounted into my workbench. I specifically require this blade to cut thin strips (v. thin such for Kumiko) from solid wood pieces - oak, ash, maple, pine etc. We are advised to purchase a sawblade with a "narrow kerf" if someone could make a suggestion, it would be very helpful! The saw will have to be 254mm with a bore of 25.4mm.

I don't know what kerf the blade should have, nor do I know or mind what make it should be nor the teeth details. Please would someone give me some guidance about what make is reasonable quality and give me your thoughts on the other details that I need to know in order to purchase a saw blade.

I won't hold anyone responsible for your suggestions, rather I will be pleased o receive a number of suggestions in case I have difficulties in getting a specific brand in NZ.

Cheers chaps!

Please be aware of the riving knife if your using a thinner curf blade than what the saw is supposed to use. I learnt that lesson the hard way.
Stay safe.
Kind regards
Lee.