Advice on chair repar

[John Brown]

I'm trying to repair a chair. The joint between the seat rail and the back of the chair was very loose and wobbly. I guess the chair itself is not a very strong construction, having no stretchers(excuse me if I get the terminology wrong), but we have five others, and I don't want to throw it away just yet... They're fine if you simply sit on them, but some family members have a habit of trying to scoot them back and forth without taking the weight off, if you know what I mean.

So, any advice on how to mend this would be greatly appreciated. I'd probably even tolerate a steel bracket of some sort, except that the angles are not 90 degrees. I could conceivably find some similar timber and make up wooden gussets(terminology again...).

John

 

[Wildman]

a couple of wooden knees would be neat.

 

[John Brown]

a couple of wooden knees would be neat.

Although my knees are troublesome, I will, eventually, opt for some sort of metal or ceramic replacement.

Seriously, you might have to explain exactly what you mean in layman's terms.

 

[custard]

I'm trying to repair a chair. The joint between the seat rail and the back of the chair was very loose and wobbly. I guess the chair itself is not a very strong construction, having no stretchers(excuse me if I get the terminology wrong), but we have five others, and I don't want to throw it away just yet... They're fine if you simply sit on them, but some family members have a habit of trying to scoot them back and forth without taking the weight off, if you know what I mean.

So, any advice on how to mend this would be greatly appreciated. I'd probably even tolerate a steel bracket of some sort, except that the angles are not 90 degrees. I could conceivably find some similar timber and make up wooden gussets(terminology again...).

John

You've neatly illustrated one of the life rafts that keeps most antique restorers afloat now that the antique furniture market just keeps dropping in value!

Chairs nearly always fail at this particular joint, where the side rails join the back legs, and once this joint goes all the other joints on the chair will begin to fail as well unless you fix it.

You're lucky, judging from the photograph the glue has failed and the joint has come apart cleanly. If at all possible you want to repair it without screws, brackets or anything else, you just want to re-instate the original joint. That's not only for aesthetic purposes, it's simply the best way to preserve the strength and integrity of the chair. Your first plan should be to clean off the old glue as best you can, re-glue and use a strap cramp (or if you haven't got a strap cramp then make a Spanish windlass) and you should be good for another twenty years!

By the way, chair scooting family members deserve a clip around the ear!

Good luck.

 

[AndyT]

If the dowels are still firm (not cracked) and well glued in one side, it could be as simple as cleaning all glue off the free ends and in the holes, re-glue with PVA, clamp up and wait for the glue to dry. (I've had to do this with all of a set of six dining chairs - I think the makers were trying to save 0.1p per chair by scrimping on the glue.)

The 'knees' are bits of wood with the ends angled, screwed into the corners - it looks like your chairs had these, so just put them back.

Do work out the clamping first - how you do that will depend on what you have or can borrow.

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Chairs nearly always fail at this particular joint, where the side rails join the back legs, and once this joint goes all the other joints on the chair will begin to fail as well unless you fix it.

You're lucky, judging from the photograph the glue has failed and the joint has come apart cleanly. If at all possible you want to repair it without screws, brackets or anything else, you just want to re-instate the original joint. That's not only for aesthetic purposes, it's simply the best way to preserve the strength and integrity of the chair. Your first plan should be to clean off the old glue as best you can, re-glue and use a strap cramp (or if you haven't got a strap cramp then make a Spanish windlass) and you should be good for another twenty years!

+1. I'm in the process of doing the same to four chairs for our son, exactly as described by Custard.

 

[ED65]

I've repaired a chair using exactly the process custard described. Be as thorough as possible about cleaning off the old glue. For clamping I used what I knew as a tourniquet at the time but recently learned is more traditionally called a Spanish windlass. In case that needs explaining it's a loop of something tensioned with a stick, like this.

If your wife happens to have an old pair of tights due to be retired they're excellent for this purpose as they're good about not marring the wood. You can get minor dents into the wood at corners when the windlass is fully tightened if you use string or narrow cord, so may want to cushion the corners with a fold of cardboard just to spread the load a bit.

 

[John Brown]

Thanks. Familiar with Spanish windlass, but I do have a few cramps/clamps that I can use, including a couple of sash cramps.
PVA or hide glue? (I have PVA).

 

[dzj]

Hide glue.
Usually when you clean up the old glue, there is a bit more space in the joint than would be ideal for PVA.
Hide glue deals better with gaps. It's also reversible if you ever need to take it apart.

 

[custard]

Thanks. Familiar with Spanish windlass, but I do have a few cramps/clamps that I can use, including a couple of sash cramps.
PVA or hide glue? (I have PVA).

There's a wide range of opinions on the best glue for chairmaking, and that's amongst really experienced and competent chair makers!

Some say PVA because it has a bit of flex and the reality of chair design is that they do flex under load.

Some say Hide Glue because glue and subsequent joint failure is virtually inevitable, so it makes sense to use a reversible glue and completely disassemble a chair for repair.

Some say UF glue or Epoxy Resin because chair design means joints are stressed more than any other piece of furniture, so a gap filling, ultra strong glue is the way to go. Also, if you're making a jointed chair in a small commercial workshop you expect to be dry assembling the chair many, many times, so there is an argument for cutting the joints a bit looser in order to facilitate this without damaging the chair during the build, and then taking up the slack with UF or Epoxy. Plus some chairs are really complicated to cramp up, so the extra open time of UF or Epoxy is vital.

The good news is that you can use whatever glue you have to hand, safe in the knowledge that somewhere there's a highly respected craftsmen who completely agrees with your choice!

 

[Wildman]

knees as requested note grain direction.

 

[blackrodd]

knees as requested note grain direction.

Nice to see those things again, If I could have a quid for every one of those I've cut out of oak,elm ash etc,
Rubbing strips and false keels etc, does anyone repair or make wooden boats anymore?
Regards Rodders

 

[John Brown]

Thanks to all.

John

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

Just one thing to add. Your chair has a drop in seat so it is very important the chair does not go out of square when you clamp up. A simple way of ensuring this is to put the seat in when you are clamping, then you know it will fit when the clamps come off.
In 35 years of restoring furniture I have never heard seat blocks called 'knees' !