Advice on building kitchen cabinets and tools needed please.

[scubadoo]

Hello,

I'm finally having to contemplate re-doing our kitchen. I'm trying to work out if it's worth doing it myself.

Most of the build it yourself cabinets i've found online are chipboard and i was assuming that some 18mm ply would be better?

Can anyone point me in the direction of guides on how to build them and what tools i would need. I'm set up with drillpress and router but assume i need a table saw. Any recommendations?

Is dowel or biscuit jointing the best method?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Dave

 

[BradNaylor]

I wouldn't bother making the carcasses, Dave.

Yes, plywood would be 'better' than MFC, but MFC is perfectly good enough for the job, is pre-finished and easy to keep clean, and buying ready made cabinets is a lot cheaper and easier than making your own.

I would concentrate my efforts on making some really nice doors and drawer fronts.

Cheers
Brad

 

[TEO]

I agree with Brad,
Good MFC carcasses are fine for most places, giving you more time to spend on making nice doors. If you fit them properly there's no reason they shouldn't give really good servoice.
Don't bother with Howdens, you'll regret it and don't be put off by self assembly units from a reputable factory... Put off by quality I mean, obviously you're not going to be put off by some assembly if you're up for making the doors.
These are the ones I use:
http://www.omegaplc.co.uk/chippendale/index.shtml
I've never bought direct from the factory, don't think you can, ask them for local dealers. They've always sorted problems v quickly.
Good luck, T

 

[George_N]

I built all my own kitchen cabinets out of 18 mm MFC. It is very tough on tools and very difficult to get a clean edge without chipout. I had to cut everything a little oversize and dress the edges with a router. Birch ply is easier on the edge tools (though still pretty tough because of all the glue) but it is twice the price of MFC and still needs to be finished and edged or face framed. It adds up to an awful lot of work for a load of boxes that nobody will see (most of the time). I did it because, as a DIYer I hadn't done anything on that scale before, so it was a challenge. It has been very satisfying to "do it all myself" but if I have to do another I will do as the guys suggest and buy the cabinets and just make the doors and drawer fronts.

 

[JonnyD]

I do quite a few kitchen and generally build the carcases myself from MFC and occasionally birch plywood. It gives you the flexibility to have a perfectly fitted space and no odd gaps and you can keep control of the quality.

You really need a scoring panel saw and plenty of space to be able to make the carcases effectively and quickly. It probably takes 2 days to cut and assemble the carcases for a largish kitchen of about 40 cabinets. I joint with a domino jointer and use carcase screws to assemble or you could use biscuits or dowels.

Birch Ply is much more time consuming because of finishing all the components prior to assembly. I offer Birch Play or Veneered MDF at twice the price of the MFC carcases.

Another option would be to buy the carcase material in cut to size and then joint and assemble them yourself but if you are going down this route you might as well just buy in the carcases.


Design wise a carcase is basically just a box with a back and a shelf or two.

Cheers

Jon

 

[xy mosian]

Buying 'Flat Pack' carcasses gives you the option of altering widths, most needed, and applying extra strength to joints where you think it is needed.

xy

 

[Ross K]

All my handmade kitchens have 18mm birch ply carcasses. More labour-intensive but far superior in my opinion. Anything that has chipboard or MDF in its core can be justified for kitchen cabinet making only on the basis of cost.

Nothing wrong with that, and I'm not knocking anyone for building kitchens with them but all such materials eventually absorb water be it from a spillage in a cabinet, ambient moisture, water dripping down the front of the cabinet or whatever.

So it really comes down to the question of cost and time and whether you want to make a kitchen that will last a lifetime or until the next fashion trend comes along.

 

[JonnyD]

I dont see how having a birch ply carcase is going to suddenly make the kitchen immune from fashion trends. However well made a kitchen is chances are that the house owner will want it changed before it is physically worn out. As makers of fitted kitchens i think you have to accept that it will be in a skip in 15 to 20 years time however well made it is.

cheers

Jon

 

[TEO]

Yup Jon's right, nothing's immune from the vagaries of taste and fashion, you only have to look at all the beautifully made Georgian and Victorian furniture being sold in boot sales and auctions to see that nothing we make is future proof. Of course the size of modern homes might have something to do with that.
XY's right, re sizing flatpack is easy and for relatively small quantities it'll be cheaper to use a router to finish slightly oversize panels, rather than buying a saw with a scribing blade.
Good luck,
T

 

[TEO]

At least the credit crunch has brought an end to masses of people lobbing perfectly good kitchens in the skip on a whim. Used to make me weep when a seller would "do the kitchen" to sell and then the new owner would rip it out within minutes of completing only to replace it with the same thing in a slightly different colour!

 

[crazylilting]

I love when these types of threads come up.

People get quite opinionated and passionate about their work, which i don't see as a bad thing.

I personally use Plywood. I don't like MDF or melamine, that being said i've worked with companies that do use it. There is a difference in quality of the melamine finish and what it is adhered to, however i have no idea if there is in this country, i've never used it here and won't.

I have even worked with a product that is a mixture of plywood and chipboard core that was toted as very stable.

The thing to understand about melamine is that you need a scoring blade or you will be for ever routing edges to get it good enough as a finished product.

The next issue is edge banding, unless of course you are going with face frames. Iron on is not a good choice in my opinion after working at a place that had an edgebander.

In your situation i'd go with what others are saying on buying the carcasses, i've seen kitchens in £70-80 thousand range using melamine, don't underestimate the destructive powers of water on plywood, i've seen horror stories on both products.

As far as well built carcasses? God i don't know, i've only installed a few in this country Howdens, Jewsons, and *cough* B&Q and i wouldn't recommend any of them. So perhaps try the link someone else posted here.

You can resize them if need be so you can achieve that fitted look, and best of all you can splash on the doors and hardware.

I disagree with the comment someone made about kitchens being disposable. I personally know several people who have had theirs for more then thirty years and when one of them wanted a change they kept the carcasses and only got new doors. It's shameful that people waste so much, but as a bench joiner my income comes from such acts, so unless i stop taking jobs where people do this, i am just as much part of the problem.

If you want to build with melamine maybe you could get the sheet stock cut at a shop like Jonny's as he is set up and wouldn't take him very long to supply and cut the pieces you need.

There are so many options really. It's finding the one that fits. I've seen people being proud of some quite shoddy work they've done, so who knows at the end of the day. beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Ross K]

The point I was trying to make about fashion trends is that a chipboard-based kitchen will need replacing by the time the next trend comes along.

And I agree with CL - a proper handbuilt kitchen is highly unlikely to be skipped after a few years. Not at my prices!! :lol:

 

[dchallender]

What do people think about using pine panels to make carcasses? I've found a supplier where I can get a 18mm x 600mm x 3000mm for roughly £20, so given that wouldn't it then be an option?

I'd be interested to see what the group thinks of solid wood panels

Darren

 

[Doctor]

The point I was trying to make about fashion trends is that a chipboard-based kitchen will need replacing by the time the next trend comes along.

And I agree with CL - a proper handbuilt kitchen is highly unlikely to be skipped after a few years. Not at my prices!! :lol:

You don't live near London, I've seen a six week old £80,000 kitchen removed because she decided it didn't suit the house.

 

[Doctor]

What do people think about using pine panels to make carcasses? I've found a supplier where I can get a 18mm x 600mm x 3000mm for roughly £20, so given that wouldn't it then be an option?

I'd be interested to see what the group thinks of solid wood panels

Darren

If you like wobbly units then go for it, those pine panels are dreadful for movement.

 

[wizer]

I'd be interested to see what the group thinks of solid wood panels

Like any piece of solid wood furniture, you'd have to put a lot of effort into combating seasonal movement, I'd guess.

 

[crazylilting]

You don't live near London, I've seen a six week old £80,000 kitchen removed because she decided it didn't suit the house.

That's just shocking. Reminds me of a time i walked into a house i had to do some work with black walnut because three other joiners had attempted and the job was rejected by the owner.

I walked in to see black walnut everywhere. The floors, doors, cabinets, etc...

I was standing there with someone and i commented that the owner seems to have more money then brains. There was a long silence... Then i quietly said... your the owner aren't you. he said yes.

It shocks me what people do with their money, but at the end of the day it is their money.

What became of the cabinets that were pulled out?

 

[Doctor]

The on site foreman took the kitchen free of charge, including granite
It was actually a new build and the kitchen came with the house (3 million)

 

[Ross K]

I'd be interested to see what the group thinks of solid wood panels

Like any piece of solid wood furniture, you'd have to put a lot of effort into combating seasonal movement, I'd guess.

Agreed. You would need to allow for movement across the grain, so whatever is attached to the solid panels which runs at 90 degrees to the grain direction would need to account for this. Stick to a static material such as those suggested above.

 

[pren]

I was standing there with someone and i commented that the owner seems to have more money then brains. There was a long silence... Then i quietly said... your the owner aren't you. he said yes.

#-o :lol: :lol: :lol: