Advice on AEG cordless kit deal

[Neil]

Hi everyone,

I was in my local tool shop at the weekend and saw a flier with a deal that looked too good to be true. It was this kit:

for €175+VAT (about £187 inc VAT). Contents are:

BSB18STX Combi Drill
BKS18 Circular Saw
BUS18X Sabre Saw
BST18 Jigsaw
FL18 Torch

2 x 18 volt 2.0 Ah NiCd Batteries
1 x 30 min Charger
Carry Bag

Price online seems to vary wildly from about £350-£550.

The sabre saw isn't really of any use to me and would probably go on ebay, but the rest would be very useful.

I'm a bit worried about the NiCd batteries - has anyone got any of this 18V AEG NiCd kit? Any opinions, good or bad?

Thanks,
Neil

 

[wizer]

Ni-Cad batteries. I wouldn't waste your time.

 

[gidon]

Neil
Looks a very good price to me but haven't owned AEG kit. I paid more for a Dewalt 14.4V Drill / Trim Saw a few years ago (and that was on offer)!
Sabre saw handy for destruction and gardening!
Cheers
Gidon

 

[gidon]

Neil
In fact the more I look at it are you sure you read it right - it wasn't a choice of two or something!? Does look an amazing price if correct.
Cheers
Gidon

 

[Neil]

Thanks, Gidon - is your Dewalt NiCd? How much use do you get out of a charge of the battery?

Its definitely the whole lot in the kit - looking around at ebay etc. I can find the same deal for about £250, but considering that in rip-off Ireland you can pay this sort of money for a 12V Makita drill/driver its no wonder that they didn't have any in stock for me to look at! AEG seem to be discounting very aggressively at the moment, and maybe they want to shift any NiCd kit quickly and just leave their lithium stuff as their main line.

My other thought is that I could add lithium batteries & charger later - they are about £35 each on ebay.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[pooka]

I certainly wouldn't dismiss the tools just because of the NiCad batteries. I have a 9.6V DeWalt drill driver whose two NiCad batteries have been going strong for 8 years or more. I think they don't hold a charge as long now but the same is true of my Makita 12V NiMH batteries (one of which died within 3 years) - I have had Li-Ion batteries for only a few months and while they are lighter and smaller than similarly powered NiCad and NiMH batteries it is anyone's guess as to whether they will last anything like as long. Ask ten people though and you'll probably get ten different answers as to how the battery types compare, and even then you couldn't draw a definitive conclusion from it.

Of course, the quality of the battery counts for a lot but that seems to be luck of the draw in some cases (e.g. I would have expected my Makita to be fine based on the brand reputation, but it wasn't).

I posted on this topic in another thread recently, mainly to point out that there remain question marks over the black and white nature in which the various battery technologies are categorised. Here is the post:

The general public view of batteries is that NiCad is inferior to NiMH, which itself is inferior to Li-ion. However, the truth of the matter might not be so clear cut as that. In particular there is a view held by some that this public image of the improvement of batteries with each version/type is the direct result of effective marketing, as companies seek to encourage people to spend on new products. Of course, it could be argued that such a view is cynicism at its worst.

Personally, I don't know enough about the technology to distinguish the genuine fact from the marketing blurb, so I try to keep an open mind on the matter. Much like anyone that has been using cordless tools for a few years I have batteries of all three types, and I have had varied experiences with them from good to bad, but the sum total of my experiences doesn't exactly match either school of thought so it is just more anecdotal evidence that proves or disproves nothing.

Amongst the masses of info available online, some of it apparently contradictory, I found this article to be an interesting read. It dates from 2001 and puts itself forward as an independent comparison of the various battery technologies above. In relation to Li-ion it concludes that aging is (or was at the time) an issue. This fits with some of the discussions that arise even now over Li-ion batteries in laptop computers - again, much of this is anecdotal but lots of people report that the length of time a Li-ion laptop battery retains a charge falls away dramatically (some claim by 50%) after about 1 or 2 years.

There appears to be no clear answer to the question of which battery technology is "best". They each have their pros and cons and the definition of what is "best" varies from one application to another, and perhaps from one user to another - in one case a high power output might be more important than a slow discharge time, in another case it may be the reverse, etc.

 

[Neil]

Thats interesting, Pooka - I must admit that I've been through plenty of Li laptop batteries over the years so they are not ideal either - although I wonder if the charging is rather more 'intelligent' with decent power tools.

One thing I've noticed with my Bosch lithium screwdriver is that the batteries hate the cold - much more so than the NiMh in my Makita & Metabo drill/drivers.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[John. B]

Looks like a pretty good deal to me IMHO. :lol:

John. B

 

[gidon]

Neil
Yes my Dewalt is NiCd - they were lasting a good day say with a lot of use but less now. I think charging them in a very cold shed is not ideal!
Cheers
Gidon

 

[Neil]

I found a useful video review by GWW of the kit here. Seems pretty good - the circular saw cut through 18mm MDF looked a bit laboured but I don't have any experience of cordless circular saws so maybe it is fairly typical.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[chris_d]

Hi Neil,

I paid over £500 for an similarly stacked DeWalt kit. However, it came with three NiMh batteries each of 3.0Ah in capacity although one of the batteries doesn't store its charge for very long now.

Anyway, when it comes to buying kits there is no substitute for actually getting your hands on the tools - I think B&Q stock AEG if they have a store local to you (but obviously don't buy from those rip-off merchants). Within a kit, the quality may not extend across all items and weaker models may have been selected to get the desired price-point or margin.

With hand operated power tools I always look for good balance (more comfortable during prolonged use - especially with respect to the drill/driver), durable casings - to overcome the rough and tumble of a site or garden, ease of cleaning & self repair, and the availability of spares / prevalence of authorised repair centres. However, for that price you could probably just buy another kit if you had a failure - but ask yourself, what is the quality of the internals (motor life, brush life, metal/plastic gearing) that can support this price point. Generally, you get what you pay for - I'm delighted with my DeWalt 18V kit and haven't had any mechanical problems at all, it is still going strong 4 years on.

Enough of my rambling,
Chris

 

[Neil]

Thanks, Chris - good advice. Because its in the local tool shop I'll get a chance to handle everything before making a decision (if they ever get any back in stock!) so I can check for good balance etc.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[woodbloke]

I'd stay away from NiCd batts as well. I've just bought the little AEG 12v Li-on compact cordless drill and I have to say that it's a great bit of kit, solid and chunky. It's also made in Germanski rather than the far east - Rob

 

[pooka]

For users of Li-ion batteries, the following may be of interest: How to prolong Lithium-based batteries, and Is Lithium-Ion the ideal battery?.

The answer to the latter question is essentially "it depends", but there is some useful info in both pages, including the following:

* Li-ion batteries last for 300 to 500 cycles (no reference is given for this though, so it's not clear what these figures are based on).
* Li-ion batteries may last 2 to 3 years if looked after (again, no reference given for this).
* Li-ion batteries should be stored at around 15C and partially charged, as both of these factors minimise the effects of aging. This is why some people suggest storing your Li-ion batteries in the fridge.
* It is better to recharge partially discharged Li-ion batteries than wait for them to discharge fully. The latter shortens their life.
* Don't buy old stock due as the age of a battery dates from when it is manufactured not from when you start to use it. Buying multiple spares also poses the same problem - they will all have roughly the same life span so they'll all likely bite the dust around the same time.

I am wary of sites that provide definitive figures for the likes of number of cycles in the lifetime of a battery without supporting evidence, but it makes for interesting reading nonetheless. The long and the short of it is that Li-ion batteries have a limited lifespan - this is true of any battery but the lifespan of Li-ions may be shorter than you'd think (it certainly took me by surprise!).