Advice for buying Oak for a project

[fobos8]

Hi all

I'm gonna be starting an oak dining table in a couple of weeks. I'm a bit unsure about buying the stuff though so need some advice please.

The table top will be 900mm x 1500mm x 40mm so I was gonna do this from 8x2" stock. Is this the best width to get or are there any benefits in getting say 6x2" - maybe its more stable?

I'm gonna get the timber yard to supply it faced and edged at 195x40mm. Once I've get the stock do I store it in my garage workshop or house for a few weeks before I work on it? If so couldn't it twist whilst it gets used to a different moisture level. In which case it will need machining again?

Should I store the rough 8x2 in workshop or house for 2 weeks and then get it machined at timber yard?

You'll probably gather by now that I'm prettty inexperienced at this so any advice/comments/recomendations would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards, Andrew

 

[Ironballs]

Having recently had to machine 2 metre lengths of 30mm oak, my advice would be to take option 2, buy it oversize, get it home in stick to acclimatise and then get it planed down to thickness. Also don't under-estimate the bulk and weight of this stuff, it is an utter pig to shift around - and planed oak square edges can easily slice through skin

 

[MikeG.]

You don't say whether you are buying American White Oak, European Oak, or English Oak........and it does make a difference.

In my experience, American oak is imported in waney edged board form, which makes any decision about width to buy irrelevant. My local importer, however, sells European oak in board form (ie, ripped to width). You will pay quite a lot to get waney board ripped and planed.

If you haven't done it before, ring the merchant and find out what they sell, go along (always carry a block plane or a scraper, so that you can see what you are buying) and just have a good look............go away and have a good think, then go back to make your purchase (with scraper, chalk and a tape measure).

Don't EVER let the merchant choose the wood for you. Pick out each piece carefully yourself.

Stacking/ acclimatising should be done in the room in which the furniture will eventually live. If you only do woodwork at the weekends, it can even be worth bringing the stuff you are working on back into the house rather than leave it in a cool damp shed for the working week.

If it was dry to start with, it shouldn't need machining again after bringing into your house. Movement should be within the scope of normal workshop tools to put right.

Mike

 

[Lord Nibbo]

Which oak you choose is up to you but I would start by buying a sheet of oak veneered ply for the top then edge it, no shrinkage to worry about, no warping, and save a whole lot of work thicknessing.

 

[woodbloke]

Good advice from Mike G and IB...unless you know what you're doing, this could prove a costly error. Buy the stuff oversized and allow a considerable margin for waste...up to 40%. At this time of year it will start to absorb moisture again so make sure that it's well sticked under cover somewhere cool. It'll need some further conditioning in a moderately warm room (ideally the room where the piece will be used) to bring it down the the correct MC for furniture in ch houses (about 10%ish).
I usually then convert it roughly to size and leave for another month in case there's any more movement after which I bring it down to the finished sizes and skim with hand plane - Rob

 

[head clansman]

hi rob

the correct MC for furniture in ch houses (about 10%ish).

what are you using to get an acurate figure like that. hc

 

[woodbloke]

hi rob

the correct MC for furniture in ch houses (about 10%ish).

what are you using to get an acurate figure like that. hc

Joyce, if memory serves (Techniques of Furniture Making)...it's the 'ish' part that's the 'get of of jail' bit (might be higher or a bit lower) but it's around that sort of figure - Rob

 

[head clansman]

hi rob

not sure :? if i'm understanding this here , ? how do you know it @ 10% ish . hc :?

 

[fobos8]

Thanks for the replies

I appreciate that it should be best left in the room where it will be used but I just don't have any space in our flat where I could put it.

I could store it under the bed - will this be too warm??


Assuming I store it in the house for a couple of weeks and that I make the table top in my cold damp shed how many days can I have it in there for before movement could occur?

I thinking its gonna be a pain moving it from the shed to the house and vice versa to do a couple of hours on it here and there.


Andrew

 

[jasonB]

HC the only way you will know the MC is by using a moisture meter.

Don't know about a ply top, you will be hard pushed to get anything thicker than 12mm and that will only be veneered one side, nice sheet of 26mm veneered MDF on the other hand....

Jason

 

[jasonB]

Anywhere in the house will have a similar humidity (bathroom & kitchen excepted) so under the bed will be fine, put a couple of thin strips of wood between the boards to allow some air movement.

If your shed is indeed cold & damp then bring it in each night and make sure the temp is above the limits for your adhesives and finishes both in use and for storage.

Jason

 

[fobos8]

I would start by buying a sheet of oak veneered ply for the top then edge it

dunno about this cos when my dinner is ready I bang my knife and fork on the table chanting "where's my dinner, where's my dinner". My daughter does it aswell now.

Dunno if veneer will take this punishment?

 

[head clansman]

hi jason

thanks , for that info thats what i thought rob was talking about a moisture meter , i must admit i have never used one.hc

 

[wizer]

I would start by buying a sheet of oak veneered ply for the top then edge it

dunno about this cos when my dinner is ready I bang my knife and fork on the table chanting "where's my dinner, where's my dinner". My daughter does it aswell now.

Dunno if veneer will take this punishment?

You could try not banging on it ?

 

[JonnyD]

You don't say whether you are buying American White Oak, European Oak, or English Oak........and it does make a difference.

In my experience, American oak is imported in waney edged board form, which makes any decision about width to buy irrelevant. My local importer, however, sells European oak in board form (ie, ripped to width). You will pay quite a lot to get waney board ripped and planed.

Mike

I have been buying American Oak for quite a few years now and have never been offered it in waney edge boards. I may be wrong but i think the vast majority of american oak imported will be in straight 2 square edged boards.

Cheers

Jon

 

[Ironballs]

Most of it will be square edged as there's no point in the timber suppliers shipping what is essentially waste wood and paying for it

 

[OPJ]

Exactly. They'll also be able to cram a few extra cubic inches of wood in one container. I've only ever come across English and (some) European stock sold as waney-edged boards.

 

[The_Stig]

American White or Red for that matter is only shipped in squared-edged due to the stuffing of the containers, and a standard container holds around 23 cubic metres of timber. Generally the longer length stocks aren't exported and therefore the vast majority of stocks in the UK are going to be a maximum of 16'. FAS grade is the usual grade that's imported although it is possible to buy super prime stocks if FAS isn't your first choice, comsells are also available as a lower grade but stocks tended to be quite thin and generally it's only imported in the thinner sizes for flooring production. As a rule of thumb you should allow 40% waste on the square edged American stocks.

With European or English stocks you'll have three choices, square-edged, one squared-edge or waney stock. Years ago we used to keep a large quantity of English 1/SE but these days the vast majority of our stocks are waney or square-edged. With waney edged material a wastage factor of 100% should be allowed although with thicker sections like 100, 120 & 150mm you should allow around 120% waste. The expected wastage on a square-edge board is 35% - 40% unless dimension stocks are available.

It's worth keeping in mind that although square-edged stock is more expensive than waney stock it often works out similar in price if you work into the equation the reduced wastage, after all the cost of machining and loss of timber has to go somewhere! However, as with all imported timbers the exchange rate plays it's part and therefore if a shipment of logs were brought at a favoured rate and a shipment of packs were brought at a bad rate the scales will start to tip!

Probably the best thing to do is to e-mail or telephone a few suppliers and give them your cutting list, most will be more than happy to give you a lump sum job price so that you've not got to worry about the wastage creeping up and biting you in the backside, some suppliers will also give you a comparison between the list coming from square-edged or waney boards, it's worth asking as they might just happen to have a log in stock that suits your requirements or a pack that's got the right widths. The other thing to bare in mind is that there is always a cheaper option, this is especially true with the European stocks, if your willing to do a little defect cutting you could opt for a light character grade which would drop the price quite considerably.

As for selecting your own or letting the yard select it I have to argue both cases, I'm not sure how other yards operate but we operate an appointment system to allow people to select their own boards as well as having trained, experienced graders who will turn logs, sets and packs to find boards that are economical & meet the requirements of the individual customer.

 

[Boz62]

Thanks for your comments there, Stig. As another hardwood newbie, and finding timber purchase rather overwhelming, background like that is really useful.

Boz

 

[fobos8]

I agree - many thanks aswell for the info.

One thing I don't understand is 120% waste. Doesn't that mean you left with 20% less than you started with?

Please advise how I am misunderstanding this.

Cheers, Andrew