Advice for a beginner's first table saw

[Wend]

Hello,

I'm looking at buying my first woodworking saw, and I wonder if anyone could give me some advice, please?

I've never really done any woodworking (well, a tiny bit many years ago at school, but even then not using a powered saw), but this year I've set myself the challenge of making some bits for Christmas. In particular, I'd like to make some small (say 10cm*5cm*5cm) hinged boxes, sliding lid boxes, some larger boxes in which several smaller boxes would fit, a hexagonal or octagonal dice tray, a grid and some cubes with which sudoku could be solved, an advent calendar with drawers or doors, and a few other things on a similar scale.

To do this, I think I'll want to be able to:
* Cut soft and hard woods, and maybe plywood for box bottoms
* Cross cut and rip cut
* Cut consistently sized, square-cornered wooden rectangles
* Make mitred edges
* Get good quality cuts, as tidying up bad cuts sounds like it would require more skill and time
* Cut grooves in wood, ideally flat-bottomed, and ideally including some deep (3-4cm) grooves in wood about twice the thickness
* Perhaps cut some finger joints
* Cut thin strips off of blocks of recycled (or perhaps even new) hardwood
* Turn a cuboid into a box by cutting it in half

So I've been doing some research, and it sounds to me like a table saw is what I should get. A band saw would give me poor cuts that I'd then need to clean up some other way, and in any case it would not be able to cut any grooves. A sliding mitre saw would give less precise cuts, would not be able to make deep grooves in thicker wood, and sounds like it is generally a less flexible tool.

So then the question is, which table saw?

It will have to leave in a rather cramped, not particularly well ventilated room. So if we get some good weather, then something that I could easily take outside to use would be ideal. So light and ideally quiet would be good qualities to have.

The options that stand out seem to be:

* Scheppach HS100S
Worryingly cheap. Would it be of sufficient quality to get precise, repeatable cuts, etc?
Presumable brush motor, so will noise be an issue?
And does it really need 250mm blades, rather than the more common 254mm/255mm?

* Jet JTS-10
Still cheap. Even in the Axminster promo video for it the cut quality looks poor, which is not encouraging!
Brush motor, so will noise be an issue?

* Axminster BTS10ST
More expensive, but do I need what the extra price buys you?
Still a brush motor, so still unsure about noise.

* Axminster TS-200-2
More expensive still, and that's without the stand included.
Smaller blade, less cutting depth.
Heavier, probably impractical to lug it in and out the house. Possibly hard to even assemble myself!
But induction motor, so quieter.


Does it sound like I'm on the right track? Am I looking at saws that are too cheap, needlessly expensive, or even the wrong sort of saw altogether?


Any advice gratefully received, and sorry for such a long first post!

Cheers

 

[SteveF]

I can't help you with a choice
but
please cross off your list as a beginner
* Cut grooves in wood, ideally flat-bottomed, and ideally including some deep (3-4cm) grooves in wood about twice the thickness

Steve

 

[Sheptonphil]

The words 'rather cramped' and circular saw shouldn't be used in the same workspace.

The circular saw is one of, if not the, most dangerous tool to own in the workshop, and if space is cramped may not be safe. You really do need a fair amount of room around and behind the saw to use it effectively and more importantly, safely.

For grooves, use a router.

Phil

 

[bourbon]

+1 forget the table saw. Use a router for the grooves. If you really need a powered toy get a sliding mitre saw. And If you are a beginner, watch your fingers.

 

[Wend]

Hmm, I was thinking that grooves meant doing the same as cutting, but with the blade lower down. But I guess maybe you'd need to take the blade guard off to get the wood to go through or something?

Anyway, if I cross grooves off of the list, then would a portable table saw make sense for me? Or are you saying I'd be better off with a sliding mitre saw?

 

[Sheptonphil]

Grooving on a saw requires the removal of the blade guard, an absolute no-no for a beginner who wishes to retain all digits, and also probably altering of the riving knife as most will not drop below the top of the blade.

As for accuracy and fine finish, don't expect too much from a £400 saw, sounds a lot of money, but isn't in saw terms. I have the Bosch gts 10 xc with a decent blade so £600 worth, and yet I wouldn't expect fine finish and total accuracy for box making from it.

Cutting tops off boxes also requires guard removal.

These things are EVIL for the novice.

Depending on the size of materials being used, a band saw properly setup with a decent appropriate blade is far safer, and will give a finer, cleaner cut than a mid range table saw. A small disc sander, even a home made one, to finish edges if needed would be a decent combination.

My penny worth, others may give other views.


Phil

 

[LancsRick]

A small band saw and a small router table sound pretty good for what you're after to be honest, have you considered those?

 

[SteveF]

I will go against others here
and say that what you want to do, then a table saw is the right choice
don't take the guard or riving knife off ever ever ever
find another way to cut your grooves
for small stuff I have to say a decent mitre saw would probably do what you want, but later on may not suffice
difficult choices for a novice
and of course there will be the hand tool option..not my choice but a very good option

Steve

 

[Wend]

OK, I am very glad I posted for advice! Thanks to everyone for your input!

I think you've convinced me that a table saw is the wrong option.

I'm now thinking instead of the Axminster AWSMS102 254mm Slide Mitre Saw. This would be a little cheaper (although I'd need to get a stand for it too), and any blade I'd get for it would likely be usable on a table saw, should I get one in the future (although to be honest, that would probably a long way off, as other tools would probably be a better upgrade first). I think the depth-stop would even allow simple grooves to be cut safely? There are other sliding mitre saws for a little more, and a little more than that, and so on into the thousands, but Axminster seems to be a respected brand, so that seems to be as good a gamble as any.

I'm trying to avoid "... and a router table", as that would have me spending twice the money, and I'm not sure how much use I'll make of these things yet.

"... and a sander" sounds a little less expensive, and to be honest I was pretty much expecting to end up needing one anyway, as even if the saw is perfectly accurate I'm sure that my measuring etc won't be! So I think I'll try to do some more research on bandsaws in general, and the cheap Axminster one in particular, before I take the plunge on a mitre saw. Although without a router, and ideally a router table, grooves would be out of the question.


Thanks again for all the help!

 

[MikeJhn]

In a tight space and a mitre saw this takes some beating: http://www.axminster.co.uk/bosch-gta-25 ... ise-211782

And this takes some beating for a sander: https://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-431537/sea ... Gwodd4oESw

Mike

 

[Wend]

In a tight space and a mitre saw this takes some beating: http://www.axminster.co.uk/bosch-gta-25 ... ise-211782
Mike

Thanks, but I'm not sure I can justify spending the extra if something like http://www.screwfix.com/p/evolution-800 ... arms/48911 will do the trick.

And this takes some beating for a sander: https://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-431537/sea ... Gwodd4oESw

Mike

That looks a little curious to me. I thought you always wanted the sand paper moving towards the table. I'll check it out!

 

[Sheptonphil]

I will go against others here
and say that what you want to do, then a table saw is the right choice
don't take the guard or riving knife off ever ever ever
find another way to cut your grooves
for small stuff I have to say a decent mitre saw would probably do what you want, but later on may not suffice
difficult choices for a novice
and of course there will be the hand tool option..not my choice but a very good option

Steve

I agree in part a table saw is ok for some elements, but with a guard on (both agree it has to stay on) it won't remove the box lids either, and neither will a sliding mitre saw take the tops off without risk of ripping the box from your grip and hurling it in pieces against the wall, as you only have one hand (usually not the dominant hand) holding the workpiece, especially if considering a 10" jobby, there is so much force trying to work against you.

As with table saws, cheap and mid range sliding mitre saws are really not that accurate either, and a decent circular blade for fine work really isn't cheap.

Pay your money, make your choice, but I know what saw I actually use for small box making, a bandsaw, and I have access to all the saw types. Large(er) boxes need a table saw, but not in the hands of a novice.

All views are not definitive , but IMHO.

Phil

 

[Bodgers]

For the requirements you have the TS200 mk2 is the only real option in your list.

Excluding the stand, there isn't really any 'assembly' with the TS200. Buy it without the stand and make a wheeled based to make it easier to get it in and out of a building.

For doing the box lid cut offs you could always resort to hand tools, which you would probably need anyway for getting things finessed on small boxes and fine gift type items.

 

[PAC1]

A tenon saw and a hand plane is best for the tasks described. Cutting pieces 50mm long on a table saw is dangerous let alone mitering the part

 

[edcruwys]

I agree with Bodgers here. TS200 or the bigger TS250 are the only sensible options....both are induction motors so quieter and more powerful. Invest in decent quality blades and you can achieve a planed finish to your work...cheap blades lead to bad workmanship and extra time sorting out problems. A chop (sliding mitre) saw is only ever going to give you limited cross cutting ability but a table saw is so much more versatile. Watch a few videos on Youtube and see how to use them safely, don't take liberties or cut corners and safety is not an issue....a table saw, just like any other tool is safe if used correctly.

 

[gmgmgm]

I feel a bandsaw would be much better (and safer) than a table saw for these jobs. Don't be guided by American youtube videos in which a table saw is the only solution to every problem.

 

[Wend]

OK, having read through many bandsaw threads on here, I've decided that a bandsaw is indeed the way to go; either the Axminster HBS250N or the Record BS250. Based on the old threads, with an appropriate tuffsaws blade, these ought to handle the bits of wood I've already got (up to 8cmx6cm), and with patience even larger pieces, without problems. A larger model would obviously be nice, but even ignoring the cost, the extra space taken up would I think not be worthwhile.

The Axminster generally seems a little better. A little cheaper (delivered), cabinet rather than legs, and dual speed. The only problem is they seem to be a variable number of weeks away from having any of them available!

Thanks again everyone for all your advice.

 

[edcruwys]

The Axminster generally seems a little better. A little cheaper (delivered), cabinet rather than legs, and dual speed. The only problem is they seem to be a variable number of weeks away from having any of them available!

Check stock at the various shops. It is possible for them to recall stock to fulfill an order

 

[Sheptonphil]

The Axminster generally seems a little better. A little cheaper (delivered), cabinet rather than legs, and dual speed. The only problem is they seem to be a variable number of weeks away from having any of them available!

Check stock at the various shops. It is possible for them to recall stock to fulfill an order

Absolutely, there is one in stock at Axminster store, they can ship from there to any store for onward delivery/collection.

Ring and ask, they are very helpful.

Phil

 

[Bodgers]

A larger model would obviously be nice, but even ignoring the cost, the extra space taken up would I think not be worthwhile.

.

Others may disagree, but you would be surprised.

I owned a Axy 250 bandsaw and I just found it way too underpowered for hardwoods. (Even with the much praised Tuffsaw blades).

Worth stepping up to a 305mm (12") with at least a 700W+ motor. Foot print isn't much bigger either.