Adirondack Guide Boat Itch.

[Adam W.]

That's right, they are 2" flitches of red spruce root for the ribs. I don't have access to red spruce, but there's lots of Norway spruce which I can have for free. I'll have to make sure that they fell it with the stump at waist height, otherwise they won't be long enough.

If the forester protests, I'll just buy the whole tree and I'm sure it'll be ok then.

 

[heimlaga]

Norway spruce is very good boatbuilding timber. The standard go to material for boats all over the northern two thirds of Finland and the northern half of Sweden and Norway. If you want a light boat you should use it for the entire boat. Very fibrous and elastic.
The downsides to Norway spruce are two:
-Enclose it with varnish or paint on both sides and it will rot out while you are watching. Boats built from it must be either oiled or tarred at least on the inside so the timber can breathe.
-It is hard on the tools. In air dried state as normally used for boatbuilding in a workshop that isn't permanently heated it can still be worked if you sharpen your tools a bit more often than usual but if you dry it in a permanently heated workshop for long the knots harden and will dull any tool in an instant and even wear valleys in cast iron machine tables.

21 kilos is remarkably ight for a 14 foot boat. A lightly built traditional Finnish lake boat of the same size would weigh over 50 kilos.

 

[Adam W.]

@heimlaga In the Adirondacks at about 1900 they were using Eastern white pine because it's free of knots, but that has a similar issue with decay and the boats would probably have been tarred in the beginning and varnished later on when things started to get civilised.

I would imagine that at the very start they were using spruce too, as these were probably built by Scandinavians in the beginning and they look similar to some boats I was eyeing up in Bergen.

If I can get clear spruce, I'll use it.

 

[Stevekane]

Good luck with the build, I think beautifully made boats like these seem to transend craft and become art, and the fact that they carry you safely in a hostile enviroment adds an extra dimension that art in the ordinary sense lacks,,
Steve.

 

[heimlaga]

Good spruce for planking isn't clear. If there are an even sprinkle of small healthy knots there is much less risk for cracks in the planking. So the old boatbuilders say.
You cannot edge set clinker planking so you normally saw planking stock full width unedged with any bend in the log turned so as the end up as a bend on edge. If you still cannot get wide enough timber to provide the necsessary edge bend in the upper strakes in the bow and the stern you may glue on some extra pieces to the width of your planking stock using Aerodux 185 or similar glue. Phenolic-recorsinol glue is the only wood glue that isn't damaged by steam bending after gluing.

For gunwales ans steam bent ribs the strongest spruce timber in one half of an undergrowth sapling. The sort that grows cramped in between other spruce trees and struggles towards the light. Sawn open along the plinth and barked and dried. Then shaped so that the resulting piece is taken out as close to the surface of the tree as possible

 

[Inspector]

21 kilos is remarkably ight for a 14 foot boat. A lightly built traditional Finnish lake boat of the same size would weigh over 50 kilos.

That is a glued lapstrake boat made of Oakum marine plywood. First of them I ever saw were by Tom Hill in the US making open canoes about 10' long coming in at around 10 or at most 15 pounds. He wrote a book on the method. There are kit boat suppliers that use similar methods, stitch and glue, for some of their craft. Basically replacing the frames and clinch nailing with epoxy glue.
Chesapeake Light Craft | Boat Plans, Boat Kits, Boatbuilding Supplies, Boat Kit, Kayak Kit, Canoe Kit, Sailboat Kit LapStitch construction. LapStitch from Chesapeake Light Craft - Combining Stitch-and-Glue and Lapstrake Boat Construction
https://www.pygmyboats.com/index.htmlhttps://www.woodenboatstore.com/products/htb-glued-lapstrake-wooden-boats
Pete

 

[Adam W.]

The one I'm having a go at is hopefully going to be around the 26kg mark as I need to get it on the Punto.

 

[Adam W.]

Here's some more piccies from the Adirondack Museum...

All photos ©Adirondack Experience.

 

[profchris]

Have fun!

As a child in the 1960s I regularly re-read the section in Arthur Mee's Children's encyclopedia on making a birch bark canoe. A similar form but quite fragile I'd imagine. OTOH, you should have access to the right size of birch tree.

I found a website Building the Birchbark Canoe - Key Measurements

 

[heimlaga]

European birches have bark that is neither strong nor flawless enough to make a good birchbark canoe. Näver-Ant tried and failed.

 

[John DeLapp]

@heimlaga

Weight and form are at the top of the list for this one, the average 14' guideboat weighs about 28kg. Plus they are fast craft.

I initially wanted one of these.........You can probably guess that I'm a bit of a tart.

View attachment 139337

I too started building boats, in the late seventies for me. I had found a copy of Building Classic Small Craft by John Gardner and was entranced with the Rangeley Lakes Boat. I did it for approximately twenty years. It was when I was building the little lapstrake fly fishing boat in the photo with me rowing that I really learned to sharpen. The photo was mid eighties and I did learn quite a bit. The picture of my daughter rowing was not too much later. she’s a grown lady with teen kids now.
I will say that the Adirondack Guideboat is an exceptionally ambitious choice for a first boat.

 

[John DeLapp]

All boats are lovely, esp old style wooden ones, your original photos at the top look like they show a lot of wood in storage, would these be crooks to cut the ribs and knees from rather than bending?
Steve

Those were cut from spruce roots. The forests had been heavily logged and the roots could be ”grubbed out” and sawn up.

 

[John DeLapp]

A Rangeley Lakes boat I built in the early eighties. It was planked with Port Orford cedar, Honduras Mahogany and white oak ribs. Solid wood planking didn’t work well in a dry hot climate and eventually I switched to marine ply.

 

[John DeLapp]

Have fun!

As a child in the 1960s I regularly re-read the section in Arthur Mee's Children's encyclopedia on making a birch bark canoe. A similar form but quite fragile I'd imagine. OTOH, you should have access to the right size of birch tree.

I found a website Building the Birchbark Canoe - Key Measurements

There’s a wonderful book, Survival of the Birch Bark Canoe by John McPhee. Tremendously well written and informative.

 

[Adam W.]

I will say that the Adirondack Guideboat is an exceptionally ambitious choice for a first boat.

I'm not in a rush, and with plenty of time I think it should go OK.

Nice boats BTW.

 

[mikej460]

I too started building boats, in the late seventies for me. I had found a copy of Building Classic Small Craft by John Gardner and was entranced with the Rangeley Lakes Boat. I did it for approximately twenty years. It was when I was building the little lapstrake fly fishing boat in the photo with me rowing that I really learned to sharpen. The photo was mid eighties and I did learn quite a bit. The picture of my daughter rowing was not too much later. she’s a grown lady with teen kids now.
I will say that the Adirondack Guideboat is an exceptionally ambitious choice for a first boat.

ah but you see this is @Adam W. you are talking about - he doesn't do simple

 

[Jameshow]

I'm not in a rush, and with plenty of time I think it should go OK.

Nice boats BTW.

I just know you'll smash it for 6!!!

 

[Adam W.]

I just hope that I don't end up at the bottom of the lake !

I've got three sets of plans from the Adirondack museum, so I have to make my choice from three slightly different boats.

What the difference is, I don't know yet, but I do know that the first one was built for the builders own use and is supposed to be faster, but a bit more tippy and weighs about 25kg.

All are 16' long.

 

[heimlaga]

The amount of rocker in the keel may be one significant difference. A straighter keel makes a boat track better while more rocker makes it easier to turn in tight places.

Those are very nice boats. I just wonder if you are a bit out of your depth with the half lap planking.
By the way Peter Lindqvist has made some youtube videos concerning his local variety of half lap planking

 

[John DeLapp]

The amount of rocker in the keel may be one significant difference. A straighter keel makes a boat track better while more rocker makes it easier to turn in tight places.

Those are very nice boats. I just wonder if you are a bit out of your depth with the half lap planking.
By the way Peter Lindqvist has made some youtube videos concerning his local variety of half lap planking

There are people building these boats commercially today, the Adirondack Guideboat Company. They advertise online. It appears that the ribs or frames are laminated rather than sawn from crooks. Also the boats are strip planked rather than half lapped. Glass cloth and epoxy are no doubt involved.