Accurate angles

[transatlantic]

Whilst I agree with most of that, Transatlantic, there isn't anything in this thread to say we are dealing with someone new to woodworking. Further, on planes, you left out the easiest and cheapest option for a newcomer: buy a reconditioned plane. There are a number of specialist tool sellers with beautifully tuned old planes. In my view it is an absolute fundamental of woodworking that you can't replace skills with kit, and yet this is what so many people try to do.

Not sure if you saw my edit before your answer, but I added [Not related to the op of this post]

Yep - reconditioned planes are a good idea.

 

[novocaine]

My favourite block plane is a 20 quid faithful. How much tuning did i do to it?

I swiped the blade over a stone (not that it needed it out the box surprisingly) and set the adjustable sole to a tight mouth. Thats it.

Add in a shooting board (i made one side of my bench hook work as one) and your good to go. Total cost,25 notes if you have to buy the chunks of wood 30 if you buy a few sheets of wet and dry to sharpen it on.

 

[Jacob]

The tools don't matter much as long as they are sharp

Oh dear Jacob, I ought to have kept the little block 'plane' I found at In-Excess near me. Pressed steel body, blade about as thick as a Coke can etc. Total cost...about £1.50 if I recollect......

Within reason of course. Pressed steel body sounds like a fake plane, but even that could probably be made to work. Needs must when the devil drives!
I was thinking more of very ordinary Stanley 220 block planes (my favourite!) and other tools of the same class. You don't get 10 times the performance from things which cost 10 times as much, if anything at all for a novice.

 

[powertools]

Strange that the op has not come back to this thread when the solution could be as simple as a small length of tape and a sharp blade.

 

[custard]

The main problem you have cutting box mitres (and also picture frame mitres for that matter) isn't cutting the actual mitre itself, a shooting board is more than adequate for even the most discriminating user. The bigger problem is getting each pair of opposite sides precisely the same length.

 

[woodbloke66]

The tools don't matter much as long as they are sharp

Oh dear Jacob, I ought to have kept the little block 'plane' I found at In-Excess near me. Pressed steel body, blade about as thick as a Coke can etc. Total cost...about £1.50 if I recollect......

Within reason of course. Pressed steel body sounds like a fake plane, but even that could probably be made to work. Needs must when the devil drives!

Nope, this was no 'fake news'; a series plane for serious people...the cost even included it's own cardboard box! - Rob

 

[dzj]

Precise hand tools are often also costly........

You haven't said what you meant by this. What is the difference between a precise plane and an imprecise one? A precise tenon saw and an imprecise one? A precise chisel and an imprecise one? I'm utterly in the dark as to what you are getting at.

A person starting out (judging by the question, this would be the OP's case), usually doesn't have the skill set that someone with a few years of experience has. Simple solutions that come as second nature to most people here aren't as accessible to them.
True, buying refurbished tools would be a less expensive route, but they still have to learn to sharpen. On their own, it would take time, taking a class would cost money. A half decent sharpening setup also isn't cheap. What to do with a saw? Learn to set and sharpen it or send it away? A saw doctor also costs money and Fedex still charges...

As for what a precise WW tool is, I somehow doubt that you are utterly in the dark.

 

[MikeG.]

That tells me nothing. You suggested that there was a difference between a precise tool and an imprecise one. I know of no such difference. The difference between precise results and imprecise results is entirely down to skills, and nothing to do with tools. No plane is any more precise than any other, as I said, nor any saw or chisel.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Saw and shooting board is definately the way to go.
As a side note .... [Not related to the op of this post]
It's somewhat annoying when you see people telling someone who is completely new to the hobby, to go out and buy a beaten up hand plane off ebay and do it up.
Great.
So before they can even begin their woodworking journey, they now have to side track into restoring hand planes!
Not saying it can't be done, and I am sure that many people have done it successfully, but for the average person, ...it would be far better to simply go out and buy a mid range plane ...

Then they have to find out how it actually works and learn to sharpen and set it properly................. which they could have done tarting up an old one.

 

[novocaine]

I had 5 minutes last night. so I swiped the blade of the cheapest and nastiest plane I own over the stone a few times (was still blunt to be honest) then compared it to my rough as hell 102 and my faithful.

Verdict, it wasn't an easy plane to use, adjustment isn't intuitive if all you've ever seen is something with a knob, it could do with a bit more time on the stone to get a better bevel and it flexed a lot under pressure. But it cut, it made shavings and it could be controlled to do what you wanted with a bit more effort I grant you but it still cut. the faithful won, but then it's the one that gets used, so it's blade was quite likely the sharpest and out the lot as evidenced by the shavings.

Tested on a piece of very very hard staved beech counter top and a knotty piece of pine.

you can get going on the sharpening ladder to hell with a few bits of wet and dry and a piece of glass, for a new person who hasn't sharpened before then a jig is needed (I know Jacob, I know) but that can be as simple of a bit of wood or as cheap as a jig (think they are a fiver).

completely off topic there so sorry to the OP. I hope the OP comes back and provides some detail. As a note, you couldn't shoot with the pressed steel plane as it's side isn't flat (neither is the 102 for that matter).

 

[shed9]

True, buying refurbished tools would be a less expensive route, but they still have to learn to sharpen. On their own, it would take time, taking a class would cost money. A half decent sharpening setup also isn't cheap.

I agree with your comments dzj but do think tool maintenance and learning to use it are connected from the get go. Anyone using a plane for any reasonable length of time is going to have to sharpen it fairly soon. There are cheap routes to start basic sharpening and I've even seen people advertise local services of professional sharpening for a few pounds. There are also local colleges that run free or cost effective woodworking classes dependent upon the students situation. I agree that people starting out will be at a disadvantage to those with time based experienced but then someone looking to make precise cuts and asking advice on how to achieve it will likely have some expectation of learning beyond the cut itself. I actually sit on the side of advocating buying the best tools you can and don't subscribe to the idea (by some) that any tool can be made to work. That said I also appreciate that sometimes there isn't an option or even a desire to buy at certain costs at which point there are other options and refurbishing or buying refurbished is one of them.

A lot depends on the requirements of the OP and I echo the comments of hoping they reappear.

 

[SammyQ]

The difference between precise results and imprecise results is entirely down to skills, and nothing to do with tools

Mike, for the first time ever, I gently beg to partialy disagree.

I must have taught in excess of 6000 different boys in my career. In lab work, you needed a tool - or a technique - suited to the job in order to achieve precision (meaningful, i.e. accurate ) results. In my case, measuring the length of a microscopic object without a) an eyepiece graticule and b) a stage micrometer, would have been impossible. So, precision tool(s) needed.
Your point, I think, is that the same tool(s) used inappropriately, ham-fistedly, without due care and attention, renders false data? I fully concur. Once the tool is available, it's only as good as its operator. I can think of several hundred whingers over the years who couldn't be bothered to 'follow instruction'and ballsed-up what should have been a simple and edifying prac.
Perversely, I also believe tools of limited precision, like my grande olde wudden smoother, need FAR more experience, control and foresight in setting up than, say, my Record T5 and in that respect, I agree with you. BUT...if a more precisely controllable tool (like my Record) is used, setting the iron precisely is more easily and predictably achieved. The quality of the subsequent act of planeing is indeed commensurate to the care taken in its use.
Pedantry over.
Sam.

PS edit: I'm trying hard not to start a 'flame war'debating the difference between "accurate" and "precise"...the ghosts of too many school inspectors 'hobby horses' in that one!! :?

 

[MikeG.]

That's subtle, Sam, but sort-of misses the point. The claim was made that there are such things as precise and imprecise woodworking tools: two versions of the same tool, one of which produces imprecise results, and another which produces precise results. I'm simply asking for some evidence of this, or even a supporting anecdote or claim. As I said, show me 2 chisels, one of which is precise, and one of which is imprecise. Or two tenon saws, one in each category. I'm not saying the claim is wrong, because it is perfectly possible I have entirely misunderstood what DZJ is getting at.........I'd just like to understand what is being said. The context of my misunderstanding is that in my limited set of tools, absolutely every single last one can produce imprecise results, or precise results, with the difference being in the way the are used, not in the tools themselves.

 

[SammyQ]

Agreed Mike. There is no such thing as a 'slightly better' tool, of the same ilk, with more inbuilt precision; it's the operator, not the device.

In this respect, using the argument, of: "more adjustability, more precision" - the basis of a lot of tool marketing - can be seen for what it is: totally specious!

Sam

EDIT AFTERTHOUGHT:

" As I said, show me 2 chisels, one of which is precise, and one of which is imprecise. "

You are, of course, assuming an identical degree of pre-use fettling? A bellied chisel would not perform as well versus one with the back (just behind the edge) flattened? Sorry, being pedantic again, to ensure clarity.

S.

 

[galleywood]

Mike
What about an instance where a saw is correctly sharpened and set vesus one that is not.
Same goes for a chisel where the back is not flat and the cutting edge is a mish mash of angles across the edge.
Would these fit the description of precise and imprecise?

 

[MikeG.]

Mike
What about an instance where a saw is correctly sharpened and set vesus one that is not.
Same goes for a chisel where the back is not flat and the cutting edge is a mish mash of angles across the edge.
Would these fit the description of precise and imprecise?

I've no idea! It's not me who made the claim that there was such a thing as a precise (or imprecise) hand tool. I'm simply seeking clarity on the claim.

 

[powertools]

Without a lot more information from the op about the difficulty they are having I am amazed how many of you have come up with a solution.
just for the record I have what seems to be the exact same mitre saw as the op and with a sharp blade and careful set up it can provide perfect results.

 

[shed9]

Without a lot more information from the op about the difficulty they are having I am amazed how many of you have come up with a solution.

that's a very fair point. I'll be standing in the corner.....

 

[Racers]

Answering the OP's post

Box making involves accurate angles and lengths.
A shooting board or boards is the easiest way I have found to get good results.

Pete

 

[powertools]

So did you make your own shooting board and if so how would you have done it with the tools you had that you were unable to make accurate cuts with.
To help the op would need advice on getting the best from the tools at hand and then how to progress from there.