A DUST EXTRACTOR

[Alexam]

Thanks Guys, all good comments. I do use an Air Ace respirator when creating dust, perhaps a little lax sometimes when the bandsaw is only doing a little, but do use when sanding. Once I get a dedicated extractor, possible Record DX100 or Numatic 750s, then either a Microclene 760 (but that's less than the 115Cu/M garage space, but working at the end mainly), but I can place it near the machine being used.

The alternative would ba a more centrally placed larger air filter like Microclene MC1210 or the larger Record. . I like the idea of the Microclene 760 as it is more managable and can be used on the bench when hand sanding as well. Does that sound about right?

Alex

 

[Jensmith]

Nic - I spoke to the Microclene guy - Ron at Arcol and I'm not sure you should be washing your filer every week. The filters have an accumulative effect getting more of the smaller dust as the filter clogs. This is what he said anyway:

"the mc760 will filter your workshop over 20 times per hour**, with the standard G4 filter, with the J9 it will fall to 10 times per hour, which is still very good. the percentage of dust particles below 0.5 microns in woodworking is very low, averages out at 6% of the dust particles below 10 microns, when you think that 10 microns is the smallest size particle that the human eye can see, and that would be a person with the best eyesight, usually about 12 to 16 yrs old, the problem of particles below 0.4 that the G4 filter removes is a very small problem. with the filtering rate of 20 times an hour 99% particles of airborne dust down to 0.4 will be removed, and a lot of dust particles below 0.4 will be removed, the filter we use will still take out even smaller particles than 0.4, but is not measurable.
i hope all this tech talk helps.
Ron"

**The number of times the 760 will filter depends on the size of your workshop. Mine is a 1.5 car garage. The reference to the J9 filter is from a guys blog who used a filter that is more efficient at filtering the smallest particles. He did a review on his Wood Butchery blog. He spoke to the guys at Microclene and Record to compare air filters as what's stated on the website and what's actually true is quite different!
http://aggravatedwoodbutchery.wordpress ... mment-1212


I have the Microclene and like it. It's a good size, pretty good filtration and great that it sits on your benchtop.

 

[beech1948]

Alexam,

NBo. It does not sound right to me.

I too work in double garage w/shop. My approach is different to yours.

I started looking at large bag collectors. Record sell them. Mostly for chips off P/T. The problem was the bags let too much dust out.

I needed about 100liters/sec. Thats much more than the machines you are looking at. Most of those I would class as vacuums or maybe industrial hoovers. As such they will be Ok for hand held machines but that is all.

My table saw/ bandsaw and P/T needed much more. I ended up with 2 Record 4000 because my w/shop is long and narrow. They generate 106 l/sec from 2x 1hp motors and can support 20Ft of 4 inch pipe distributing my DC effort and clean down to 0.5 micron size.

I have turned these into 2 stage DC by putting a Thein separator between the Records and the machine and acting as a small cyclonic device to separate out the dust and chips. Very very little now gets back to my Record DX4ks. I mounted these on a stand with the Thein above the Dx4000s. One of these is in a sound muffler box.

The Thein devices are made by me from leftover ply in the workshop.

In addition I have a Henry which is on wheels and goes to handheld machines. such as sanders.

I have as well a ceiling mounted air filter. Again home made for cheapness and it works as well as if not better than the bought items. Plans found via Google.

I think you are underestimating the level of suck you will need and only looking at cheaper units which will not be suitable for larger kit.

If I were to do this again I would still buy the two Record DX4000s but I would buy a cyclone from Cyclone Central as they are only about £85 for a 4" pipe self build unit. good value.

The Record DX4000 is pretty much unbeatable as it is basically a tin can with 2x motors and 2x filters.

You might find one 2nd hand but they don't come up too often.

hope this helps
Al

 

[Alexam]

Hi Al,

Thanks for your comments about this. It sure is a minefield. However, it sounds like you have a busy workshop and I can understand your need for the filtration you use, I have a double garage with pitched roof and valume of about 100 cu/m, with a wall workbench at the end, on which we do hand sanding, planing, drilling etc as a hobby on some evenings and at week-ends. We have a bandsaw and recently added a belt & disc sander and doubt we will add equipment to that. We only have a 'Henry' at present, but if I buy a dedicated extractor to use on the sander or bandsaw when being used, such as a Record DX100 or similar (?), then have an air filter like the Microclene 760 (?), to use on the bench or hang just above the area of the sander or bandsaw when in use, I was thinking that most of the dust problem should be met.

The other consideration was instead of the Microclene 760, to have a larger air filter, say the Microclene 1200, or whatever, over the 'general' work area, which is mainly near the workbench at the end of the garage, are you saying that you think this would not be enough for our hobby?

 

[wcndave]

Yes that should be fine for your needs.

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[Alexam]

Thanks Dave. That's the extractor and the Microclene 760, or larger one?
Alex

 

[beech1948]

Alexam,

OK I probably over estimated your use.

I would keep the Henry for hand tools and clean up eg drill press

I would connect the RX100 by flexible pipe to both the sander and the bandsaw using a Y shape. I would add a couple of blast gates so I could direct the full suck to one or other. Once fixed I would leave in place.

based on the idea that the best way to minimise dust is to collect at source you need to consider the bandsaw and sander in detail. If the bandsaw will take a feed from low down on the lower wheel cabinet then OK BUT add a DC take off from under the table. See Google. Both these take offs will be needed. I also use a DC collection from above the table using a fixable hose. It's a case of keep adding as you design it to get it better and better.

The sander will probably be the most difficult as it is hard to effect a close seal to it. Review via Google and search this site.

Air filter. OK I think. I would make my own and use the cash for other tools. Its only a bit of woodwork and some cheap electrics.

Al
Al

 

[wcndave]

I agree with connecting both with blast gates and auto take off, saves lots of time and ensures use.

The air filter, well I don't have one, I open a window and get a through breeze to take it all away. In my new shop I don't have through movement so I might get one.

The microlene 760 sounds good to place next to work. The record one to generally clean the air, with timer and remote is nice.

I think either will improve your air quality.

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[Alexam]

Thanks Guys,
I don't need to connect both machines, as both will not be running at the same time. An extractor can be connected to whichever one is being used, as and when. We do put two cars in the garage each evening (not mine unfortunately), so all equipment is put to the back of the garage, out of the way to make sufficient room.

The garage is approx 100 cu/m with pitched roof and most work is done on the machines pulled into place, or at the wall workbench at the back of the garage, so an additional air filter, like the Microclene 760, could be positioned near the actual working area of sander, bandsaw or workbench.

Wearing a Trend Air Ace resperaitor, with an extractor like the Record DX100 (or another ?) connected to whichever machine is being used, with a Microclene 760 (or another ?), nearby at the same time, should meet the need (I hope) .

The sander has a connection port on the back and the bandsaw also has a port on the lower housing, but I will be changing the bandsaw for a Record 350S or 400 very soon, but I don't expect to be adding any additional machinery as this is only a Hobby for us, not a furniture business. Does that all seem to fit the bill?

Alex

 

[nicguthrie]

Nic - I spoke to the Microclene guy - Ron at Arcol and I'm not sure you should be washing your filer every week. The filters have an accumulative effect getting more of the smaller dust as the filter clogs.

Thanks for pointing that out Jen - TBH it was sloppy typing on my part. I don't wash the activated carbon one, I vacuum the front of it once or twice a week, as I keep it very close to my work, so as to remove any heavy build up. I'd be frightened to lose the properties of the carbon by washing it. I did occasionally wash the original plain plastic filter as it looks like nothing much different than the material that webrax/merlon pads are made of. Point taken tho, I'll not do so in future

Alex The Trend Air Ace is very good, but I found it excessively heavy after a while, and for myself I bought the JSP Powercap Active IP (impact Protection) as I found it a lot lighter and easier to wear. it's a little more expensive, but shop around, as there's places it's around the same as the Trend.

The Record bandsaw is also excellent, but I've found that my extractor doesn't have the overall "oomph" to draw enough flow thru the port on the lower casing, so I get far better results using a magnet to hold my smaller of my hoses to draw the air directly through the plastic insert under the blade on the table. I hear the port works fine with a large chip extractor etc, but I didn't have room for anything larger than my numatic nvd750.

I can't help on the suitability of different models of the microclene range, but I reallly like my 760, especially as it's portable enough to take into the house and park behind any small sanding jobs I may do, to avoid the wrath of the other half, and remove any airborne dust at source

All the best.

Nic.

 

[Alexam]

Thanks Nic,
I find the Air Ace fairly comfortable and as I wear glasses, it does not steam them up, which other resperators do.

Extraction from most bandsaw ports seems rather poor from reports I have read on UKW and other forums. Your idea of the vac positioned under the blade table sounds good and we do have a 'Henry' , which could also add to the extraction if the new Exrtactor does not work well.

I do like the reports I have read about the Microclene 760, particularly the portability and air flow rates. I also see that an additional filter could be added to further reduce the smaller particles of dust. Even with the 760 in place, I know that my better half would not allow that in the house. I have a job getting in if I am too mucky! lol

Alex

 

[wcndave]

Sounds like you can't do much more than air mask plus extraction plus air filter...

The reason we suggested a y connection and blast gates is that the faff off moving it between machines, especially when you have different adaptors etc. I did it after a few years and never looked back!

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[Alexam]

Thanks Dave

 

[beech1948]

Thanks Nic,
I find the Air Ace fairly comfortable and as I wear glasses, it does not steam them up, which other resperators do.

Extraction from most bandsaw ports seems rather poor from reports I have read on UKW and other forums. Your idea of the vac positioned under the blade table sounds good and we do have a 'Henry' , which could also add to the extraction if the new Extractor does not work well.

Thats what I meant about you need to figure out how to get a DC hose up under the table close to the blade. This can be as sinple as a piece of sink plumbing pipe cut down to length and then along its length to give access. One end needs to be sealed or used to attach the hose end. The blade would run through it in its usual guides. The fitting needs to be tight, air sealed to encourage air to come in from the plastic piece in the table and carry dust into the DC hose. It could also be a ready made piece already under the table but if so you need to work on sealing it.

Sorry but its not all as simple as we would wish.

Al

 

[Alexam]

OK Al, I have the general idea and will work on it when I have to extractor. Next week will be a buying one, getting the extras together and maybe even ordering the new bandsaw as I cannot seem to find a Record 350s or 400 that's used to save a few £'s ........ just my luck.

Alex