3" engineer's vice big enough?

[woden]

I want to get an engineer's vice but am not sure what size of a one I need. I can't see it being used for anything more strenuous than holding threaded rod to have its end peined, holding bits and pieces while I clean them with a wire brush on a drill and possibly securing bits of metal for cutting, grinding and bending. Most vices for sale seem to have jaws in the 4" to 6" range but I'm wondering if even a 4" isn't too much for a home hobbyist. You see, I've seen the odd small 3" vice and they're a bit cheaper - but would one this small suffice for home use or can they be a bit lightweight?

There also seem to be three additional features on engineers vices - all of which never appear on any one vice on the market. These are a built in anvil, a quick release lever and a swivel base. Which of these are worth looking out for and which are needless gimmicks?

For the size of vice I'm looking at I can't see a quick release lever being of much benefit as the jaws are unlikely to open far enough to make screwing them closed again a chore. The anvil seems like a good addition but they're often so small as to make you wonder if they're any real substitute for a separate stand alone version. Plus, I wonder would the cast in vices at the cheaper end of the market stand up to being whacked with a 2lb ball pein hammer? As for the swivel base I have visions of these being a poor and wobbly fit on a cheaper vice. Furthermore, what's to stop you taking the item out of the jaws and simply turning it around as opposed to rotating the entire vice?

Anyway, learned advice appreciated... :wink:

Ps, I've come across some vices made from ductile iron (like the LN/LV planes). Given that the grey cast iron in the cheaper vices could well be a bit green would something in ductile iron be a better bet as it's unlikely to break/chip with hammering?

 

[Paul Chapman]

A good metalworking vice will last for years, even generations. I have an old Woden vice that used to belong to my grandfather and it still works as good as new. I'd have a look around in second-hand shops - I often see quite good Record and Woden vices going for a reasonable price. I think a plain one would suit most hobby needs - just bolt it down well on a very firm surface and get some soft jaws for it.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[White House Workshop]

Don't forget to check your local auction houses. Vices usually end up in a box of bits or with a load of rusty old tools and those boxes often sell for a fiver or less.

 

[George_N]

I'd probably go with a 4" vice but a 3 incher would do all that you describe above. I mounted my engineer's vice (old, second hand) on a board that can be clamped in the woodworking vice when I need to do some metal bashing and it stores on the floor under the bench when I need a flat work area.

 

[engineer one]

having a number of vices, (metalworking ones as well :roll: :lol: )
i would say that a swivel base has some uses that would surprise you, it is not however, necessary. where you use a swivel is when you are trying to do things on two sides without moving the item.

i have a couple of record vices, 6inch types, bought new, but very cheaply.
don't know where you live, but often the tool outlets sell them so it's worth looking in the in excess type places.

make sure you get or make some soft jaws.

actually, you would find the quick release very useful when you are holding something heavy and awkward.

paul :wink:

 

[Scott]

I'd go for 4". A 4" Record has served me well for 20 years of fixing cars, metalwork/welding and other hobby work (including miscellaneous abuse that it wasn't designed to withstand but has). No experience of cheap makes or swivel bases I'm afraid but I wouldn't personally want to go smaller than 4" jaws. You mentioned "bending". That can put quite a strain on the vice depending what you're doing. There have been occasions when I've wished I had a more substantial vice but never enough to warrant actually buying one.

Horses for courses of course!

 

[DuncanvdH]

I recently bought a Heuer vise. It is forged instead of cast, and the spindle can be reset when needed. It was considerable more expensive than a Record but seems of much higher quality. Because the price increased quite a bit with the size of the vise I settled for the smallest one.

The vise can be mounted on a swivel base, or even a base that will fold under the workbench. Both bases are sold separately. I too have the vise on a small wooden base that can be clamped in the woodworking vise of the bench.

Duncan

 

[woden]

Been away there so just getting back to this now…

I have an old Woden vice that used to belong to my grandfather and it still works as good as new.

Yes, I always made great vices... :wink: Do you think an old British made vice is the type to go for as the cast will have been made to a high standard and with the passing of the years the casting should have strengthened still further? Would an old, well made vice be up there in terms of strength with one of these flashy new ductile iron versions?

Oh, what width are the jaws on yours, Paul?

Don't forget to check your local auction houses. Vices usually end up in a box of bits or with a load of rusty old tools and those boxes often sell for a fiver or less.

Yeah, I did that recently and came across a reasonably heavy duty 4” but unfortunately there was something wrong with the jaws and they didn’t meet up level. But I’ll go back now and again as the guy there said they regularly had old vices in.

I'd probably go with a 4" vice but a 3 incher would do all that you describe above.

I was thinking that but the 3” vices look very lightweight when you see them firsthand and not in an internet pic.

I mounted my engineer's vice (old, second hand) on a board that can be clamped in the woodworking vice when I need to do some metal bashing and it stores on the floor under the bench when I need a flat work area.

There’s a picture of someone doing that in one of the catalogues I have, think it’s Rutlands. My only concern is that things like oil, grease and metal filings would contaminate my woodworking bench. I’ve arranged a second bench to use exclusively for metal working.

i have a couple of record vices, 6inch types, bought new, but very cheaply.

There are often big vices like that going on ebay, unfortunately they’re always pick up only as the postage would be too much. Saw a Record 25 listed recently with a weight of 45kg – that’s about 7 stone... :shock: Too much for the postie to carry!

make sure you get or make some soft jaws.

What about the vices for sale with shaped jaws that have groves and things for holding irregularly shaped items, etc. Are these worth forking out for or are such jaws unnecessary gimmicks? S’pose you can probably buy specially shaped jaws separately to fit most vices.

I'd go for 4". A 4" Record has served me well for 20 years of fixing cars, metalwork/welding and other hobby work (including miscellaneous abuse that it wasn't designed to withstand but has).

Has yours a built in striking anvil – these seem fairly useful to me. But I guess you can probably get away with battering stuff on the jaws or some other part of the vice if a bit of, er... striking has to be done.

I recently bought a Heuer vise. It is forged instead of cast, and the spindle can be reset when needed. It was considerable more expensive than a Record but seems of much higher quality.

Forgive my ignorance but is that forged out of steel as opposed to iron? (Or is it forged iron which is wrought iron isn’t it... brain overload... I’m confused ) Is a forged vice stronger than one made from ductile iron? And what sort of price would you be talking about for one of these as the new records are already pretty pricey?

 

[Paul Chapman]

I have an old Woden vice that used to belong to my grandfather and it still works as good as new.

Yes, I always made great vices... :wink: Do you think an old British made vice is the type to go for as the cast will have been made to a high standard and with the passing of the years the casting should have strengthened still further? Would an old, well made vice be up there in terms of strength with one of these flashy new ductile iron versions?

Oh, what width are the jaws on yours, Paul?

Hi Woden,

Yes, you made a very good job of mine Here's a pic (just in the process of relocating it)

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The model is 186B/3 and despite the 3 in the model number it has 4" wide jaws. They are a pair of Record fibre soft jaws fitted to it. I've no idea how this one compares with modern ones. It's very old but will still probably out-live me. Unless they have had a very hard life in a busy workshop, a well-made old vice like a Record or Woden will last a very long time. They were designed for hard, professional use.

Cheers :wink:

Paul