3/8" Bedan

[woodpig]

I want to try one of these but there is quite a cost difference between the Crown I can buy locally and the Sorby. Is the Sorby really worth the extra?

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

My attitude to turning tools is if they're HSS then apart from the handle design/size, what's the difference other than the name/branding??

And of course all modern turning tools are HSS.

If there is a difference in the quality of the steel that explains the price difference then I have to be honest, I cant tell what it is.

 

[CHJ]

I agree, for most operations I think it unlikely that one brand will appear any better than another.

One interesting thing I observed when trialling a Tormek was:-

. These were duly ground to Tormek profile and did reveal an interesting fact, the Hamlet tools were a lot harder than the others and consequently took longer to profile, the Crown gouge was the softest of any, none of which was obvious on my dry grinder.

But of course different batches could well have different hardness levels.

 

[Doug B]

For tools of such a basic design as the Bedan etc I just make them from HSS blanks from Ashley Iles, the beauty of which other than the monetary saving is that I can turn the handle to suit my grip which ironically is very similar to the Sorby handles

 

[chipmunk]

To put a different point of view I'd suggest that 3/8" Bedans are not all the same.

One of the key attributes of a Bedan is the amount of taper away from the cutting edge and these are not all the same and will fundamentally limit the flexibility of the tool in use. I know several members of my club use Bedan as a box scraper and obviously the more tapered the blade the smaller box it can be used on.

I only have one Bedan and it was bought from Craft Supplies many moons ago but it has quite a slight taper compared to the Sorby version.

I think it depends what you intend to use it for but check the taper.
HTH
Jon

 

[woodpig]

Manufacturers seem pretty poor at illustrating their products adequately these days, at least for those of us that have to buy some items by mail order. As far as I can see though the Sorby, Crown and Hamlet all have at least some relief. I'd like to try the Hamlet but can't find a local supplier yet. I've bitten the bullet and paid over the odds for a Crown Firmager parting tool so I'm holding fire on the Bedan at the moment!

 

[woodpig]

Just got the £12.50 winning bid on eBay for a Sorby so I'll soon see how it is!

 

[marcros]

Just got the £12.50 winning bid on eBay for a Sorby so I'll soon see how it is!

That is a good win. I fancy trying one myself- they look a handy tool.

 

[Mark Hancock]

I agree, for most operations I think it unlikely that one brand will appear any better than another.

One interesting thing I observed when trialling a Tormek was:-

. These were duly ground to Tormek profile and did reveal an interesting fact, the Hamlet tools were a lot harder than the others and consequently took longer to profile, the Crown gouge was the softest of any, none of which was obvious on my dry grinder.

But of course different batches could well have different hardness levels.

Chas
It was interesting to read your quote. I've been doing a lot of tuition lately and it often involves re-profiling gouges for students but on a dry grinder. I've noticed a difference between the ease and time it takes to reshape different brands. I'd always assumed that all M2 HSS was the same but there is obviously a difference.

 

[CHJ]

Chas
It was interesting to read your quote. I've been doing a lot of tuition lately and it often involves re-profiling gouges for students but on a dry grinder. I've noticed a difference between the ease and time it takes to reshape different brands. I'd always assumed that all M2 HSS was the same but there is obviously a difference.

I think it's very much down to the heat treatment of the particular batches, and possibly the source of the original steel. (heat treatment of theses steels is very expensive and needs very careful furnace control)

Just as all water is not the same for quality I suspect 'HSS tool steels' and the level of quality audit for something likely aimed at wood cutting tools is not of the highest order from some sources.

I often buy HSS tool steel blanks at a show when I think I could do with something different in shape experiments etc.

It's not unusual to find those intended for wood turning use with hardness testing marks on them, where someone has been batch testing, the fact that they may not have come up to spec. and been discarded from the prime sales stock does not bother me as they are still more than adequate to last my lifetime * but if my suspicions/guesses are correct then there's a chance that some get through in any line and certainly One Brand over Another could well be setting different costing standards on material supplies and heat treatment costs.

All of which can change year by year or month by month even as wholesale sourcing of materials and treatment providers are shuffled to meet supply or change in costings.

* I have one large wide heavy flat scraper, one of half a dozen offered in a tray some years ago that does all I need and carries the usual HSS and Brand etching but it needs the edge touching up for nearly every use, I know its not the same hardness, but it does the job for me, a professional using it every few minutes might well have thrown it in the bin a while back.

 

[woodpig]

I was doing some turning on my metal working Lathe the other day and the cut was quite deep and the swarf was coming off red hot. The tool bit was only 1/4" HSS although it was an old English branded piece of HSS. I'm still using it now without any difficulty and without even touching up the edge with a stone. Still, Cryo tools look nice and I'm sure they hold an edge well if you can afford them. I may buy a Cryo scraper soon and try it.

 

[CHJ]

I was doing some turning on my metal working Lathe the other day and the cut was quite deep and the swarf was coming off red hot. The tool bit was only 1/4" HSS although it was an old English branded piece of HSS. I'm still using it now without any difficulty and without even touching up the edge with a stone. Still, Cryo tools look nice and I'm sure they hold an edge well if you can afford them. I may buy a Cryo scraper soon and try it.

There is no doubt that the usual small section HSS steels obtained from metal turning sources in the main have better edge holding although somewhat more brittle than the average wood gouge steel, I've got 1/2" and 3/8" steels from the late 1950's that have not lost more than 2cm of length in all those years use and sharpening cutting mild steel.
I've used up the length of a 3/8" Hamlet gouge in 10 years on wood though.

 

[chipmunk]

I remember John Davies telling me that one of the main differences between Sorby HSS and Crown HSS was that the Sorby tools are individually hardness tested whilst Crown's are batch tested. I have no way of validating the statement about Crown but based upon the very few Sorby tools I have, they do seem to have a test dimple on them.

...but don't forget that not all HSS is M2 - there are even grades without molybdenum (that's what the M in M2 stands for).

So vanilla flavoured HSS could be just about any tool steel grade with a tolerance to high temperature http://www.itoolsteel.com/userfiles/file/ASTM A600-92a_ High Speed Steel.pdf

HTH
Jon