1st metal lathe questions, recommendations, advice please.

[Togalosh]

Evening Gents,

I am getting more into metalworking for both my workshop & furniture making & am toying with getting my 1st metalwork lathe & need your sage advice please. I have basic metalwork skills but almost none in turning metal. I am in danger of buying something more expensive than what is sensible or something that is rubbish.

I used a Clarke CL430 the other day to turn down an offcut of a 25mm lead screw (with which to make a wagon vice). The owner said he really liked it but there was a lot of slack/play (?) on the lead of the handwheel that moves the tool across the bed ..& the finish was rougher than I'd expected (but that could be my fault). Is this play/slack to be expected/ acceptable for the price or fixable ? (The owner is a clued up man & would surely fix the issue it if was possible).

Are the Clarke CL250M, CL300M / Axi' C2A, SC2 worse or is there another machine you could recommend ? The CL430 is £838 which is a lot of money - I cannot really justify that expense for the quantity of work I'll do but I don't want something inaccurate. I could wait on here or Ebay for an old one to come up for sale.

I plan to mainly turn brass (for furniture hardware) but mild (?) steel & stainless every now & then when being inventive (I get a lot of brass parts & useful stainless odds & sods from work that are destined for the bin)

As ever, any help/ advice would be greatly appreciated.

Togs

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I think the consensus is not to buy things with "Clarke" written on them, other than compressors which don't seem to be bad.

 

[marcros]

some interesting thought on a thread that I started here metalworking-lathe-t93870.html?hilit=%20lathe

application not dissimilar

 

[woodpig]

Old English machines like Myford and Boxford are well made provided you know what to look for in a used machine. A good Myford though is likely to cost more than an import so most likely outside your budget. This leaves imported machines from China. They are all pretty similar but I'd buy from someone like Warco who have been selling these things for a long time. My only real concern with modern hobby lathes (from the Far East) are the circuit boards that provide the variable speed drive. There have been many threads on some forums about component failure albeit mainly on milling machines but also on lathes. Luckily my own 8 X 14" lathe has a geared head so no worries there but if I had to buy another I may opt for something like the 920 sold by Chester as the speed is changed by slipping belts, no Chinese electrics to go wrong. Whilst belt slipping may prove to be a bit of a chore you could at some point fit an inverter to provide a somewhat more reliable variable speed? Just my own thoughts.
It's a shame that geared heads have disappeared on hobby machines but I guess circuit boards are cheaper to make. I think you first job is to work out exactly what size machine you want and then see which suppliers can provide it within budget. Sadly some charge delivery on top but shop around because some include delivery in the price. Good luck with your purchase and let's see some pictures when you get it!

 

[RogerP]

............ Luckily my own 8 X 14" lathe has a geared head so no worries there but if I had to buy another I may opt for something like the 920 sold by Chester as the speed is changed by slipping belts, no Chinese electrics to go wrong. Whilst belt slipping may prove to be a bit of a chore you could at some point fit an inverter to provide a somewhat more reliable variable speed? ........

A vote for the old 920 lathe, rebadged by many sellers but mine just says "Made in China" Tough and not much to go wrong once you've initially fettled it. I have thought about an inverter/3 phase motor to give variable speed drive but somehow don't think I'll get around to it.

Same as this, except mine's green and 230v ...
http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-x-19-Bench-Lathe/G4000

 

[woodpig]

There may be others but this is the only 920 type I've seen in recent years in the UK.
Depending on exact spec they may be also be called 918 or 919.

http://www.chesterhobbystore.com/920-lathe-3968-p.asp

The other nice thing about this type of lathe is the built in Norton style gearbox for thread cutting, very handy.

 

[Jamesc]

+1 with Woodpigs comments.

I too would stick with a modern machine for your first lathe (I now have 4 - don't ask), older machines can be a project in themselves and need a fair bit of work and knowledge (readily available on the internet) to get them working at their best.
Pretty much all modern hobby machines come from the far east, many from the same factory, however all are not equal and it depends on the supplier as to the quality you get (there have been several excellent threads on this board which expand on this).
My advice would be to take your time and trust your instincts. you tried a Clarke machine and were unhappy with it - you were right.
I would suggest checking out suppliers with showrooms and going to see the machines you are considering and try them out. The likes of Warco, Arc Eurotrade, and Axminster Power Tools spring to mind. You may like to consider going on Axminster Power Tools engineering course, it would give you a day to try the machines at length and I am sure if you talked to them first you could arrange to use the actual machine you are considering.

 

[woodpig]

I've done a quick search and there are several other companies that sell belt driven lathes without variable speed very similar to the 920 but with completely different model numbers!

 

[Wildman]

a lot of chinese machines have too high a low gear, no backgear, no reverse to leadscrew so Left hand threads are problematic. Backlash should be possible to minimise even if it means making a new "nut", but of course if you have no reverse then LH threads are a no no. If you just reverse the motor the chuck will unscrew whilst you are cutting. I suspect a secondhand british machine of better quality can be had for the price of a new chinese one.

 

[Spindle]

Hi

As a first step I'd advise you to determine the swing and distance between centres that you feel you will need, (then add anything up to 50% :wink: ).

Once you've done this you can refine your searching.

I have two lathes from the far east, (one gear head and one electronic variable), and both have been fine - you can be lucky with a second hand European lathe but it's a chance you take, whereas with a new import you have all the normal legal protection.

In your circumstance I'd go for a new import if I could afford it.

Regards Mick

 

[RogerP]

......... I suspect a secondhand british machine of better quality can be had for the price of a new chinese one.

Not that I can find on the web, the cheapest are about £1500 old and tatty. Plus (and it can be a major problem for some of us) they need to be collected, so its lifting kit a couple of helpers, a large van and probably all day and many miles. Buy a new Chinese one (from a decent supplier) and it's delivered and placed in your workshop.

I'd love to have found a British machine for what I paid for my Chinese 9 x 20 but I'm afraid I'd still be waiting instead of machining.

That's not say that if you're lucky you can't find one just round the corner in beautiful condition going for a song - it does happen.

 

[woodpig]

If you just reverse the motor the chuck will unscrew whilst you are cutting.

Most Chinese Lathes have the chuck bolted on with three socket screws so you can happily run them in reverse.

I run mine in forward/reverse when single point thread cutting to save disengaging the half nut. :wink:
Many hobby Lathes advise doing this if (like mine) they're not fitted with thread dials.

 

[woodpig]

Not that I can find on the web, the cheapest are about £1500 old and tatty. Plus (and it can be a major problem for some of us) they need to be collected, so its lifting kit a couple of helpers, a large van and probably all day and many miles. Buy a new Chinese one (from a decent supplier) and it's delivered and placed in your workshop.

I'd love to have found a British machine for what I paid for my Chinese 9 x 20 but I'm afraid I'd still be waiting instead of machining.

That's not say that if you're lucky you can't find one just round the corner in beautiful condition going for a song - it does happen.

Very true.

 

[chipmunk]

I'm happy to admit that I bought a Myford ML7 because I knew no better but I think I was quite lucky because I bought from a dealer - Bede Tools who sell on ebay. Incidentally Barry at Bede Tools was brilliant about shipping the lathe to me at cost and it arrived perfect. He strapped it down with clamps to the pallet and I just posted them back to him - fantastic service but the lathe itself needed some work and is pretty worn.

My advice would be, if you want to buy second hand, then weigh up whether to buy an unfashionable cheaper British maker against the availability of spares - it's very comforting that most Myford, Boxford and Colchester spares as well as the newer Far Eastern lathes are just a click away but that comes at a cost. Some say Boxfords are better value but I am not entirely convinced that they come out much cheaper than Myfords although you probably do get more lathe for your money.

Based upon my experience though I think I'll probably end up buying new next time and that almost certainly means Far East manufacture. I bought a new metal bandsaw and have just bought a second hand Taiwanese mill.

But there are lots of positives that newer Far East lathes have over my beloved old and trusty Myford. Wider headstock bore than 2MT, a modern motor with NVR that doesn't blow the RCD every time it's switched on with one in-circuit (my only solution will be to ultimately replace the motor), sealed for life bearings that don't leave the swarf tray swimming in hydraulic oil, backgears that don't require you to fumble with a cut-down allen key to mesh and unmesh a sliding key covered in mucky oil and just 6 speeds including back gear modes.

My old ML7 does turn beautifully however with sharp HSS tooling - MS, Silver Steel, brass and Ali. Only tried Stainless 304 - it is hard but no real problem and the finish is fine with HSS.

HTH
Jon

 

[niagra]

I bought my Myford ML10 from http://www.myford-lathes.com. One man selling mainly Myford stuff from his home. Mine is in nice condition and cost about £1000 including gears, tooling etc. If you're happy with the slightly smaller ML10, rather than the more usual ML7, then you should be able to find one at a similar price I would think.

Dario

 

[Keith 66]

My first lathe was a Myford Super 7, a good machine but i always found it limited due to its tiny headstock bore. Myfords are also quite light & somewhat flexible. They are a modelmakers lathe & Myfords marketing was brilliant! It was replaced with a Bantam 2000 (im lucky in having 3 phase power). This proved to be a bit of a lemon being badly worn & in need of new headstock bearings. I was lucky to just about get my money back when i sold it to a dealer. I pity the bloke who ended up with it!
It in turn was replaced with a Harrison 140 that came from the college where i worked, fully tooled & with a known history & its original paperwork & factory test chart.
This one is a keeper!
A Boxford is far stronger & more capable than a Myford & only marginally bigger, there are lots of other makes too. I would take any British, Continental or American machine over a chinese one any day. The college replaced the Harrison with a Warco & it was truly dreadful, the school where i now work has an Optimum, this though better has parts made from some sort of lead alloy. As for clarkes they are worse.
People also make much of spares availability. In truth you shouldnt need them, but try buying parts for a Colchester or Harrison they are eye wateringly expensive!
Good sites for lathes are ,www.lathes.co.uk, and , http://www.homeworkshop.org, Keep looking!

 

[Togalosh]

Gentlemen, thanks for all your help. I am glad I asked.

So, it's British or European if I can find & afford one, the Axi' ones are Chinese but just might be ok, Chinese might be ok but probably not - double check 1st, avoid Clarke. The Axi engineering day is a very good suggestion.

The 920 looks the part, it's at the upper end of what I had in mind to pay but I don't know most of what the specs refer to.. the Myfords look like behemoths !!..

I have reread this thread over & over, there's lots of tangents/websites to go off on.. I will keep you posted on what I get.

Thanks again.
Togs

 

[Togalosh]

Evening Gents,

How about a Myford ML4, 70 yrs old, 1 careful hobbyist owner, face plates, chucks, lots of gears n stuff, £200 ?

Anything more expensive is just an extravagance (for the time it'll be used)...but to waste £200 is never clever.. what d'you think?

Togs

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Evening Gents,

How about a Myford ML4, 70 yrs old, 1 careful hobbyist owner, face plates, chucks, lots of gears n stuff, £200 ?

Anything more expensive is just an extravagance (for the time it'll be used)...but to waste £200 is never clever.. what d'you think?

Togs

Go for it - I doubt you'll find anything of remotely similar quality for £200, which in lathe terms is loose change. It's a smallish modelmaker's lathe, but if it has the capacity for the work you want to do, it won't disappoint, especially as a 'starter' lathe. Have a read of lathes.co.uk and see what you think.

 

[Wildman]

there is a dutch machine on feebay at the moment that will barely make £400 yet it is the dogs doodahs if I had the space I'd buy it myself. Finishes at the crack of dawn tomorrow. It is in Swansea.